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The German Engineering is a byproduct. The culture that created is also the one that is holding it from becoming competitive with Chinese automakers. Like almo

The German Engineering is a byproduct. The culture that created is also the one that is holding it from becoming competitive with Chinese automakers. Like almost everything, utility and efficiency is relative and dependent on the environment and external factors. People often overlook the “fit”.

Propelloni 2mo ago
They said the same when Japanese car makers were trashing European and US manufacturers in the 1980s. Yet they adapted. Then they said the same when the South Koreans trashed them, yet they adapted. Now they say the same about the Chinese. Sure, past performance is no indicator of future performance, but all the doom-saying and hysterics are just that, fear of the unknown.
- asdf88990 2mo ago
  They adopted in the sense of surviving. Considering their head start and massive government support for the industry, their market share compared to Japanese and Korean cars is a joke, with the Chinese it will get even worst because this time they will be pushed out of their home market too. This comes from a die hard bmw fan. Facts over feelings.
  - Propelloni 2mo ago
    I'm not a car fan of any kind or shape. I'm talking about things that happened. I say let's wait and see. You say you know the future. You tell me "facts over feelings". I accept your negative outlook and respect your right to hold that opinion. But, and I'm saying this in the most respectful way possible, let's have a little intellectual honesty here, please. Your statement is more speculation than mine.
    - asdf88990 2mo ago
      Of course it is speculation. I don’t have a magic ball. But only a fool ignores trends!
glimshe 2mo ago
I'd like better understand the German engineering culture. Why was it special in the past? What about today? As a kid in the 80s, I had some things from Germany and their quality was astounding. Fast forward to present time, our Volkswagen car made in Germany is the worst car I've ever had in terms of reliability. PS: an honest question getting downvotes?
- rmoriz 2mo ago
  There is no incentive to build a reliable product that can‘t compete in price. People are trained to consume and throw away. People are getting used to throw away cloths and household appliances after 1-3 years. Miele once built washing machines that outlast 30 years. They offered spare parts and regional service hubs. But the market decided to just buy the 50% cheaper ones every 5 years.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - holowoodman 2mo ago
    In the last 25 years, German companies got into "reliability engineering". Which is the art of adjusting your drawings in such a way that every component lasts exactly as long as it has to, and not a second longer. Which is why back in the day, there were some car/washing machine/tool brands and models that seemed to last forever. Whereas now the current models last exactly their warranty/leasing period. Edit: Other manufacturers do this, too. But for them, it's often coming from the other side of the reliability curve, so they are improving, the ones that were better back then are getting worse.
    - glimshe 2mo ago
      What I'm trying to understand is why Toyotas can still make great cars at prices comparable, if not inferior, to Germany's (at least here in the US). There's a quality gap there. I don't understand why German cars used to be great looking AND reliable but no longer.

Propelloni 2mo ago

They said the same when Japanese car makers were trashing European and US manufacturers in the 1980s. Yet they adapted. Then they said the same when the South Koreans trashed them, yet they adapted. Now they say the same about the Chinese. Sure, past performance is no indicator of future performance, but all the doom-saying and hysterics are just that, fear of the unknown.

asdf88990 2mo ago
They adopted in the sense of surviving. Considering their head start and massive government support for the industry, their market share compared to Japanese and Korean cars is a joke, with the Chinese it will get even worst because this time they will be pushed out of their home market too. This comes from a die hard bmw fan. Facts over feelings.
- Propelloni 2mo ago
  I'm not a car fan of any kind or shape. I'm talking about things that happened. I say let's wait and see. You say you know the future. You tell me "facts over feelings". I accept your negative outlook and respect your right to hold that opinion. But, and I'm saying this in the most respectful way possible, let's have a little intellectual honesty here, please. Your statement is more speculation than mine.
  - asdf88990 2mo ago
    Of course it is speculation. I don’t have a magic ball. But only a fool ignores trends!

glimshe 2mo ago

I'd like better understand the German engineering culture. Why was it special in the past? What about today? As a kid in the 80s, I had some things from Germany and their quality was astounding. Fast forward to present time, our Volkswagen car made in Germany is the worst car I've ever had in terms of reliability. PS: an honest question getting downvotes?

rmoriz 2mo ago
There is no incentive to build a reliable product that can‘t compete in price. People are trained to consume and throw away. People are getting used to throw away cloths and household appliances after 1-3 years. Miele once built washing machines that outlast 30 years. They offered spare parts and regional service hubs. But the market decided to just buy the 50% cheaper ones every 5 years.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- holowoodman 2mo ago
  In the last 25 years, German companies got into "reliability engineering". Which is the art of adjusting your drawings in such a way that every component lasts exactly as long as it has to, and not a second longer. Which is why back in the day, there were some car/washing machine/tool brands and models that seemed to last forever. Whereas now the current models last exactly their warranty/leasing period. Edit: Other manufacturers do this, too. But for them, it's often coming from the other side of the reliability curve, so they are improving, the ones that were better back then are getting worse.
  - glimshe 2mo ago
    What I'm trying to understand is why Toyotas can still make great cars at prices comparable, if not inferior, to Germany's (at least here in the US). There's a quality gap there. I don't understand why German cars used to be great looking AND reliable but no longer.