3 ms·

This is something from early 2025. The situation and my own way of driving the models has improved somewhat in the intervening period. Variations on a Theme of

by sieve 2mo ago

This is something from early 2025. The situation and my own way of driving the models has improved somewhat in the intervening period. Variations on a Theme of Saki https://gist.github.com/s-i-e-v-e/b4d696bfb08488aeb893cce3a4c174cd https://gist.github.com/s-i-e-v-e/b4d696bfb08488aeb893cce3a4...

grey-area 2mo ago
I’m sorry but this isn’t very good, problems from a cursory look: Stuffed full of adjectives, a common problem when LLMs attempt to make the text literary. Stuffed full of incidental detail (window inexplicably open), which doesn’t quite make sense - why would you leave a window open for people to return? Things which suddenly loom large in the narrative without any previous mention (roaring fire). Overuse of certain mechanisms (for example here ellipsis). Meanders without any discernable goal from one scene to the next. So in short, it’s a tale told by an idiot savant, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Take this sentence as an example: A biting incident, if I'm to be perfectly honest. Involving… several toes. The ellipsis just gets in the way, the ‘perfectly honest’ likewise and this should be one better formed sentence. The several toes bit is overly explicit without being clear (he lost several toes, or toes were bitten?). Most of the text is like this - infuriatingly vague, clumsy in construction and full of non-sequiturs. Compare this with real writing: https://archive.org/stream/GrahamGreeneShorts/21%20Stories_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GrahamGreeneShorts/21%20Stories_d... https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3077/3077-h/3077-h.htm#link2H_4_0003 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3077/3077-h/3077-h.htm#link2...
- sieve 2mo ago
  Did you read the original by Saki (Exhibit 12)? Ideally, you should read all 14 exhibits. Each has been produced by a different LLM, some local, others frontier models of the time. E4 = Claude E6 = ChatGPT E8 = Mistral E11 = DeepSeek V3 E12 = Original
  - grey-area 2mo ago
    Sorry, I'm not doing all that work for you, I read the first one and was sick of parsing it for meaning by the end. The work you posted was distinctly unimpressive, particularly as it had a seed text to impersonate and improve. The 'window' is I assume a french door, which I suspect is a mistranslation. If you want to seed LLMs I'd start with texts that are not translated! Honestly compare it to the human writing examples I showed you and consider the differences in intent and style, which are vast. I see why you're interested in this, I myself am interested in what these models can do and have tried similar experiments, but you should always be aware when you're asking others to waste their time on word generator output.
    - sieve 2mo ago
      > The 'window' is I assume a french door, which I suspect is a mistranslation. It is a french door/window. The original story is by Saki (HH Munro), one of the greatest short story writers of all time. He was English. The story is literally called "The Open Window." > Sorry, I'm not doing all that work for you Well, you asked. And I gave you stuff that I generated for comparative analysis. I am quite satisfied with the output. Most human writing, including genre writing, is subpar. LLMs are far superior to that. If you want to read only Faulkner and Eliot, then stick to them I guess? > human writing examples You must provide a solid prompt. And you must use a strong model. Deciding LLMs suck at writing based on output from Gemini 2 Flash, and expecting writing like Graham Greene is a bit much. The day LLMs start writing like him based on one-line prompts, writers will have no option but to look for other jobs.
      - grey-area 2mo ago
        In the past window could mean a glass door? I wasn’t aware of that, please forgive my ignorance. A minor point anyway and most problems were stylistic. I think it is clearer in the original work that it is more a door than a window in the contemporary sense, which is interesting. I would not be satisfied with this output, I mean if your goal is mildly satisfying potboiler fiction I guess it could be ok?

by sieve 2mo ago

grey-area 2mo ago

I’m sorry but this isn’t very good, problems from a cursory look: Stuffed full of adjectives, a common problem when LLMs attempt to make the text literary. Stuffed full of incidental detail (window inexplicably open), which doesn’t quite make sense - why would you leave a window open for people to return? Things which suddenly loom large in the narrative without any previous mention (roaring fire). Overuse of certain mechanisms (for example here ellipsis). Meanders without any discernable goal from one scene to the next. So in short, it’s a tale told by an idiot savant, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. Take this sentence as an example: A biting incident, if I'm to be perfectly honest. Involving… several toes. The ellipsis just gets in the way, the ‘perfectly honest’ likewise and this should be one better formed sentence. The several toes bit is overly explicit without being clear (he lost several toes, or toes were bitten?). Most of the text is like this - infuriatingly vague, clumsy in construction and full of non-sequiturs. Compare this with real writing: https://archive.org/stream/GrahamGreeneShorts/21%20Stories_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GrahamGreeneShorts/21%20Stories_d... https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3077/3077-h/3077-h.htm#link2H_4_0003 https://www.gutenberg.org/files/3077/3077-h/3077-h.htm#link2...

sieve 2mo ago
Did you read the original by Saki (Exhibit 12)? Ideally, you should read all 14 exhibits. Each has been produced by a different LLM, some local, others frontier models of the time. E4 = Claude E6 = ChatGPT E8 = Mistral E11 = DeepSeek V3 E12 = Original
- grey-area 2mo ago
  Sorry, I'm not doing all that work for you, I read the first one and was sick of parsing it for meaning by the end. The work you posted was distinctly unimpressive, particularly as it had a seed text to impersonate and improve. The 'window' is I assume a french door, which I suspect is a mistranslation. If you want to seed LLMs I'd start with texts that are not translated! Honestly compare it to the human writing examples I showed you and consider the differences in intent and style, which are vast. I see why you're interested in this, I myself am interested in what these models can do and have tried similar experiments, but you should always be aware when you're asking others to waste their time on word generator output.
  - sieve 2mo ago
    > The 'window' is I assume a french door, which I suspect is a mistranslation. It is a french door/window. The original story is by Saki (HH Munro), one of the greatest short story writers of all time. He was English. The story is literally called "The Open Window." > Sorry, I'm not doing all that work for you Well, you asked. And I gave you stuff that I generated for comparative analysis. I am quite satisfied with the output. Most human writing, including genre writing, is subpar. LLMs are far superior to that. If you want to read only Faulkner and Eliot, then stick to them I guess? > human writing examples You must provide a solid prompt. And you must use a strong model. Deciding LLMs suck at writing based on output from Gemini 2 Flash, and expecting writing like Graham Greene is a bit much. The day LLMs start writing like him based on one-line prompts, writers will have no option but to look for other jobs.
    - grey-area 2mo ago
      In the past window could mean a glass door? I wasn’t aware of that, please forgive my ignorance. A minor point anyway and most problems were stylistic. I think it is clearer in the original work that it is more a door than a window in the contemporary sense, which is interesting. I would not be satisfied with this output, I mean if your goal is mildly satisfying potboiler fiction I guess it could be ok?