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> Could Apple build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist? Apple got rid of all the NeXT people long ago, with Tim Cook stabbing Scott Forstall

> Could Apple build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist? Apple got rid of all the NeXT people long ago, with Tim Cook stabbing Scott Forstall in the back, so the answer is No.

ak39 2mo ago
This type of story about management getting rid of the old guard is so common and typical, it remains one of the most frustrating aspects of this industry. In the “enterprise scene”, this sort of purge strategy is likely linked to a big percentage of money wasted and sometimes total failure. Why do managers keep making this mistake? “Legacy” is only a bad word in IT. :-(
- pjmlp 2mo ago
  Because their KPIs are all about making a impact.
  - astrange 2mo ago
    Apple doesn't use KPIs for performance reviews. (Also, eg Ali Ozer is still there.)
    - pjmlp 2mo ago
      Tomato tomato, employees do have to meet performance goals of some sort.
- mutkach 2mo ago
  On the other hand, it is not uncommon for the exiled old guard to form new companies, teams, products and realize their vision under new management. It is not like their knowledge and experience gets literally purged.
saagarjha 2mo ago
This is completely false, many NeXT people still work there.
- dosisking 2mo ago
  So you think that they would be able to build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist?
  - saagarjha 2mo ago
    In what sense?
    - dosisking 2mo ago
      In a technical sense. Do the remaining NeXT employees still at Apple have the technical skills to create Mac OS X and Cocoa?
      - saagarjha 2mo ago
        Yes, I would imagine so. I don't think the result would look exactly like what it does now since needs have changed, but I can imagine that they could do it.
  - dwaite 2mo ago
    Would they want to? If you were to build a system with no requirement for backward compatibility with cocoa or macOS, or even knowledge from such a thing existing, we have still moved forward three decades from not just NeXT, but the computing industry that NeXT was built to serve. I'd assume their requirements would be drastically different, and the system they created would be drastically different as a result. The requirements aren't even easy to hypothesize, since iOS would never have existed.
    - pjmlp 2mo ago
      I recommend reading on Steve Jobs biographies of what was done at NeXT, regarding whatever industry your mean.
steve1977 2mo ago
Craig Federighi was working on EOF at NeXT I think.
- dosisking 2mo ago
  He left after the Apple acquisition in 1999, then came back around 2009. During the time he was gone was when Apple did their best work (Snow Leopard and iPhone).

> Could Apple build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist? Apple got rid of all the NeXT people long ago, with Tim Cook stabbing Scott Forstall in the back, so the answer is No.

ak39 2mo ago

This type of story about management getting rid of the old guard is so common and typical, it remains one of the most frustrating aspects of this industry. In the “enterprise scene”, this sort of purge strategy is likely linked to a big percentage of money wasted and sometimes total failure. Why do managers keep making this mistake? “Legacy” is only a bad word in IT. :-(

pjmlp 2mo ago
Because their KPIs are all about making a impact.
- astrange 2mo ago
  Apple doesn't use KPIs for performance reviews. (Also, eg Ali Ozer is still there.)
  - pjmlp 2mo ago
    Tomato tomato, employees do have to meet performance goals of some sort.
mutkach 2mo ago
On the other hand, it is not uncommon for the exiled old guard to form new companies, teams, products and realize their vision under new management. It is not like their knowledge and experience gets literally purged.

saagarjha 2mo ago

This is completely false, many NeXT people still work there.

dosisking 2mo ago
So you think that they would be able to build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist?
- saagarjha 2mo ago
  In what sense?
  - dosisking 2mo ago
    In a technical sense. Do the remaining NeXT employees still at Apple have the technical skills to create Mac OS X and Cocoa?
    - saagarjha 2mo ago
      Yes, I would imagine so. I don't think the result would look exactly like what it does now since needs have changed, but I can imagine that they could do it.
- dwaite 2mo ago
  Would they want to? If you were to build a system with no requirement for backward compatibility with cocoa or macOS, or even knowledge from such a thing existing, we have still moved forward three decades from not just NeXT, but the computing industry that NeXT was built to serve. I'd assume their requirements would be drastically different, and the system they created would be drastically different as a result. The requirements aren't even easy to hypothesize, since iOS would never have existed.
  - pjmlp 2mo ago
    I recommend reading on Steve Jobs biographies of what was done at NeXT, regarding whatever industry your mean.

steve1977 2mo ago

Craig Federighi was working on EOF at NeXT I think.

dosisking 2mo ago
He left after the Apple acquisition in 1999, then came back around 2009. During the time he was gone was when Apple did their best work (Snow Leopard and iPhone).