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Could you please read my message in good faith and not intentionally quote me out of context, then ignore everything I had to say? It's rather impolite, and if

Could you please read my message in good faith and not intentionally quote me out of context, then ignore everything I had to say? It's rather impolite, and if you did that to someone in person, they'd probably be rather upset with you. I think drivers are catered to in almost every single scenario in the United States to the point that giving cyclists any space, any infrastructure, or anything that is not also usable by cars is almost unthinkable. With that in mind, yes, drivers will be inconvenienced. Oh well. They're convenienced at almost every turn in almost every decision about transportation, let's give bikes a chance too. You have a bike trail? Lucky! I live in central NJ, while bike trails do exist in the western part of the state, where people live here, they basically don't exist and you have to just ride in the street. Almost no offices even have a storage room, so you'd be chaining your bike to a sign, most likely, or storing it behind the building somewhere. You have it better than we do here...clearly, there's a lot more work to be done.

pandaman 2mo ago
I am sorry, what you wrote looked like you agree that there are few cyclists and you just added your idea why is it so. Did you actually want to say that there are many cyclists on the streets but they are, apparently, invisible? Well, you are entitled to believe this, I took the most charitable interpretation of what you said because attributing the belief in masses of invisible cyclists to someone would paint them completely nuts in my view. >I think drivers are catered to in almost every single scenario in the United States to the point that giving cyclists any space, any infrastructure, or anything that is not also usable by cars is almost unthinkable. Yet it's reality in many cities in the US - tons of bike lanes, unusable by cars. You can bring up bike lanes on google maps, show me a city without those. >Almost no offices even have a storage room, so you'd be chaining your bike to a sign, most likely, or storing it behind the building somewhere. And yet, the bikes don't get stolen? Not even parts like wheels, saddles, lights etc? Lucky!
- Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
  You don't see the cyclists because they pass right by - they're only in a particular bike lane that you happen to be next to for a very short time, they don't usually need to stop, and yes, obviously there are fewer cyclists than drivers because cycling in the US is unsafe. People don't bike here because they can't. I don't live in a city, I live in one of the many dense suburbs (which are denser than many cities in the US) of NJ, where there's lots of roads, and almost no bike lanes. Where biking does happen, they bike in the street, with no shoulder, and hope not to get hit by cars. The bikes aren't stolen because there are no bikes, because you'd have to have a deathwish to try biking in the road with cars in the same lane as them. It's the densest state in the union, and the only places you can bike are Newark, Hudson County, New Brunswick, Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, the barrier islands, and the boardwalks. The other 99% of the state, you're putting your life on the line. It's about safety. Would you feel safe biking in those lanes? Would you feel more or less safe biking where there are none?
  - pandaman 2mo ago
    Your ignorance of the road rules might be the reason you can't bike in the streets. Bikes, even in NJ, have to stop at the "STOP" signs and red lights, just like cars - if you don't then you are indeed in danger of collision with cars. You should seek the "driver's handbook" for your state and study it (you can download it or even get a free hard copy at the local DMV), follow the rules of the road described there and you won't be putting your life on the line. PS. Your response got killed for some reason (very bizarre in an old thread and so quickly) but to answer your question - it depends on the road. There are roads I don't feel safe driving (I live in Austin, where the city decided that the traffic enforcement is racist or something so there is none, as the result there is mayhem on the roads) but I do bike on some streets with 35 mph and no bike lanes without feeling I put my life on the line.
    - Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
      [dead]
    - Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
      Oh, I see the mixup here. When I said "They don't need to stop", I was referring to straightaways where the cars are waiting in traffic (I.E: They're not stuck in traffic), not at the intersections. Obviously, they need to stop there, except when making a right turn. I don't feel safe when I ride like that, I've been almost hit multiple times from people going into a turn lane or making a right on red because they didn't even bother looking (or just didn't care and got within like a foot of me to get into the turn lane). Most of the time, it's fine, but what would be a minor accident in a car is going to leave you pretty injured on a bike.
      - pandaman 2mo ago
        But if there are no bike lanes then how do the cyclist become invisible in your world? Even with bike lanes, I just don't seem to understand the geometry of the issue. If cyclists are passing cars in the bike lane for whatever reason then drivers should see more cyclists than if they were moving with traffic. Or if cyclists are moving slower than cars, then drivers will also see more cyclists. How come you are saying they are unseen in the bike lanes?

pandaman 2mo ago

I am sorry, what you wrote looked like you agree that there are few cyclists and you just added your idea why is it so. Did you actually want to say that there are many cyclists on the streets but they are, apparently, invisible? Well, you are entitled to believe this, I took the most charitable interpretation of what you said because attributing the belief in masses of invisible cyclists to someone would paint them completely nuts in my view. >I think drivers are catered to in almost every single scenario in the United States to the point that giving cyclists any space, any infrastructure, or anything that is not also usable by cars is almost unthinkable. Yet it's reality in many cities in the US - tons of bike lanes, unusable by cars. You can bring up bike lanes on google maps, show me a city without those. >Almost no offices even have a storage room, so you'd be chaining your bike to a sign, most likely, or storing it behind the building somewhere. And yet, the bikes don't get stolen? Not even parts like wheels, saddles, lights etc? Lucky!

Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
You don't see the cyclists because they pass right by - they're only in a particular bike lane that you happen to be next to for a very short time, they don't usually need to stop, and yes, obviously there are fewer cyclists than drivers because cycling in the US is unsafe. People don't bike here because they can't. I don't live in a city, I live in one of the many dense suburbs (which are denser than many cities in the US) of NJ, where there's lots of roads, and almost no bike lanes. Where biking does happen, they bike in the street, with no shoulder, and hope not to get hit by cars. The bikes aren't stolen because there are no bikes, because you'd have to have a deathwish to try biking in the road with cars in the same lane as them. It's the densest state in the union, and the only places you can bike are Newark, Hudson County, New Brunswick, Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, the barrier islands, and the boardwalks. The other 99% of the state, you're putting your life on the line. It's about safety. Would you feel safe biking in those lanes? Would you feel more or less safe biking where there are none?
- pandaman 2mo ago
  Your ignorance of the road rules might be the reason you can't bike in the streets. Bikes, even in NJ, have to stop at the "STOP" signs and red lights, just like cars - if you don't then you are indeed in danger of collision with cars. You should seek the "driver's handbook" for your state and study it (you can download it or even get a free hard copy at the local DMV), follow the rules of the road described there and you won't be putting your life on the line. PS. Your response got killed for some reason (very bizarre in an old thread and so quickly) but to answer your question - it depends on the road. There are roads I don't feel safe driving (I live in Austin, where the city decided that the traffic enforcement is racist or something so there is none, as the result there is mayhem on the roads) but I do bike on some streets with 35 mph and no bike lanes without feeling I put my life on the line.
  - Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
    [dead]
  - Moomoomoo309 2mo ago
    Oh, I see the mixup here. When I said "They don't need to stop", I was referring to straightaways where the cars are waiting in traffic (I.E: They're not stuck in traffic), not at the intersections. Obviously, they need to stop there, except when making a right turn. I don't feel safe when I ride like that, I've been almost hit multiple times from people going into a turn lane or making a right on red because they didn't even bother looking (or just didn't care and got within like a foot of me to get into the turn lane). Most of the time, it's fine, but what would be a minor accident in a car is going to leave you pretty injured on a bike.
    - pandaman 2mo ago
      But if there are no bike lanes then how do the cyclist become invisible in your world? Even with bike lanes, I just don't seem to understand the geometry of the issue. If cyclists are passing cars in the bike lane for whatever reason then drivers should see more cyclists than if they were moving with traffic. Or if cyclists are moving slower than cars, then drivers will also see more cyclists. How come you are saying they are unseen in the bike lanes?