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Ah, I had read a source that characterized it this way, but the truth is more complicated. The report itself said this, but it reflected only the view of the au

Ah, I had read a source that characterized it this way, but the truth is more complicated. The report itself said this, but it reflected only the view of the author; the notes from Dem leadership on the report disputed this point in particular and said there was no evidence for it. Apparently they disagreed with the report’s conclusions enough to suppress the release for a while. I misremembered this and a quick search to remind myself wasn’t adequate. Given the disagreement around the report, I don’t think it serves as a good source either way. Digging a little into it, the research seems to indicate that there’s not adequate evidence to draw any conclusions: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41253-019-00084-8 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/s41253-019-00084-8. Although there’s some evidence that negativity demobilizes voters and degrades democracy, which you probably don’t want. But I don’t really care who wins anyway, I’m not sure why I’m even engaging here. I guess I just want the 2008 Democratic party back.

Sabinus 3mo ago
>But I don’t really care who wins anyway, I’m not sure why I’m even engaging here. The democrats are so far from the 2008 version that you don't care if they lose? That Trump's activities are as bad as Biden's?
- iamnothere 3mo ago
  As I said earlier, Republicans are doing a pretty good job of dismantling the empire, and I care about that more than whatever either party is offering domestically (not much). So if they win, so be it. 2008 Dems had a large “liberaltarian” presence, which isn’t perfectly aligned with my views, but it was close enough that I was often in favor of their policies. Current Dems just want the war machine to focus more on Russia while sticking it to red states at home. Antiwar sentiment in the party died after the entry of “CIA Democrats” like Spanberger, who now have outsized influence within the party. I don’t see much good coming out of a Dem victory until they are expelled.
  - estearum 3mo ago
    "Current Dems just want our country to honor its commitments" is quite a criticism! Maybe I'm just some war hungry lunatic, but I actually think that when the US tells a country it will defend its sovereignty in exchange for it not having nuclear weapons, it's very important that we honor those commitments. That's probably because I prefer deterrence, and intermittent war required to assert deterrence, more than I like the idea of every nation in a race to build nuclear weapons and then every neighbor doing scrambling to prevent nuclearization. Basically a warmonger then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - iamnothere 3mo ago
      You also probably believe in strong regulation of the internet (including possibly ID verification), open borders, and other positions I don’t accept. As I said, I’m not a fan of the current party, and I hope that the right continues to degrade state capacity until neither side has much left to work with.
      - estearum 3mo ago
        No, I actually don't. I always find it surprising when people not only just internally start ascribing irrelevant and probably-untrue things to their interlocutors so they can dismiss their ideas, but they actually say it out loud! I don't understand what my prior comment has to do with any party at all. It was a direct response to your implicit claim about the US's obligations to Ukraine, and therefore to the rest of its security umbrella.
        deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
        iamnothere 3mo ago
        Well then you wouldn’t be in alignment with the mainstream of your party, who does seem to want that, at least if you look at blue state legislation. As to how it has to do with the party, we were discussing the Democratic Party, Russia was a brief aside. But I do find that people’s position on the Russia/Ukraine conflict typically tends to say a lot about their other positions.

Sabinus 3mo ago

>But I don’t really care who wins anyway, I’m not sure why I’m even engaging here. The democrats are so far from the 2008 version that you don't care if they lose? That Trump's activities are as bad as Biden's?

iamnothere 3mo ago
As I said earlier, Republicans are doing a pretty good job of dismantling the empire, and I care about that more than whatever either party is offering domestically (not much). So if they win, so be it. 2008 Dems had a large “liberaltarian” presence, which isn’t perfectly aligned with my views, but it was close enough that I was often in favor of their policies. Current Dems just want the war machine to focus more on Russia while sticking it to red states at home. Antiwar sentiment in the party died after the entry of “CIA Democrats” like Spanberger, who now have outsized influence within the party. I don’t see much good coming out of a Dem victory until they are expelled.
- estearum 3mo ago
  "Current Dems just want our country to honor its commitments" is quite a criticism! Maybe I'm just some war hungry lunatic, but I actually think that when the US tells a country it will defend its sovereignty in exchange for it not having nuclear weapons, it's very important that we honor those commitments. That's probably because I prefer deterrence, and intermittent war required to assert deterrence, more than I like the idea of every nation in a race to build nuclear weapons and then every neighbor doing scrambling to prevent nuclearization. Basically a warmonger then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - iamnothere 3mo ago
    You also probably believe in strong regulation of the internet (including possibly ID verification), open borders, and other positions I don’t accept. As I said, I’m not a fan of the current party, and I hope that the right continues to degrade state capacity until neither side has much left to work with.
    - estearum 3mo ago
      No, I actually don't. I always find it surprising when people not only just internally start ascribing irrelevant and probably-untrue things to their interlocutors so they can dismiss their ideas, but they actually say it out loud! I don't understand what my prior comment has to do with any party at all. It was a direct response to your implicit claim about the US's obligations to Ukraine, and therefore to the rest of its security umbrella.
      - deleted 3mo ago
        [deleted]
      - iamnothere 3mo ago
        Well then you wouldn’t be in alignment with the mainstream of your party, who does seem to want that, at least if you look at blue state legislation. As to how it has to do with the party, we were discussing the Democratic Party, Russia was a brief aside. But I do find that people’s position on the Russia/Ukraine conflict typically tends to say a lot about their other positions.