4 ms·

Le Guin is a master of fiction, period. While she's very different from modern sci-fi/fantasy, her work is almost as foundational as Tolkien, Lewis, or Asimov.

Le Guin is a master of fiction, period. While she's very different from modern sci-fi/fantasy, her work is almost as foundational as Tolkien, Lewis, or Asimov. Take her Earthsea series (which was very loosely adapted as a Studio Ghibli movie). It's much slower paced than modern fantasy. Barely anyone dies (no Red Weddings here), and it almost reads more like an extended fairy tale. But when you start reading it you can see how it influenced so much modern stuff (eg. she was telling stories about going off to wizard school decades before Harry Potter existed) and both the story and the writing itself are both so well crafted that (in many ways) no one who's come after has managed to surpass it. If you like either sci-fi or fantasy, do yourself a favor and read some of the amazing writing this titan of an author created.

gumby 2mo ago
A side point: when you say “Lewis” I assume you mean Charles Staple Lewis, not Sinclair Lewis. I find it hard to consider the former “foundational”. It was and is popular (much to the annoyance of his buddy Tolkien), but hardly influential in the way of JRRT (nobody writes poor pastiches on Narnia the way innumerable derivatives have been done on Middle Earth). As for Asimov, well, one can argue about his long term influence but who can avoid calling it foundation-al? Agree completely on Le Guin
- Robotbeat 2mo ago
  CS Lewis was pretty influential on the YA fiction, Harry Potter type of literature. And his other works also have broad influence beyond fiction.
- majormajor 2mo ago
  > hardly influential in the way of JRRT (nobody writes poor pastiches on Narnia the way innumerable derivatives have been done on Middle Earth) Harry Potter and its own spawn bears fairly distinct influences, less "direct plot copies" (Narnia itself borrowing heavily there from the Christian Bible, of course) but more mechanically and "YA fantasy vibes." His Dark Materials is basically a deliberate Narnia rebuttal/counter-argument. I think I've heard of a couple other "intentionally darker/twisted Narnia" inspirations in series, but am blanking on them. Terry Pratchett made a few direct references pointing that assumed a high level of ubiquity. IMO certainly as enduringly foundational as Asimov. Dick would belong there too at the same level of a Lewis or Asimov.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
xg15 2mo ago
> Barely anyone dies (no Red Weddings here) Can I make a side-rant how since Game of Thrones, it seems to have become an expectation that characters must be killed off? Apparently readers are (expected to) be so desensitized that nothing below "the main party that is the main reason you're reading this story can die at any moment" registers anymore. In fact, even that is just the bare minimum. To really make an impact, we need some mass casualties like the Red Wedding or Thanos' "snap" in the Avenger movies. Can we go back on all of that?
- ModernMech 2mo ago
  I think that all started with The Walking Dead
  - GolfPopper 2mo ago
    Glen Cook was killing off major characters back in the 1980s.
    - TheOtherHobbes 2mo ago
      JG Ballard, John Brunner (and others) were writing miserabilist dystopias back in the 70s. Also, Dune, which is certainly not a "The good guys win" story. And movies like Soylent Green. The Disney trope turns out not to be a trope at all. The good guys win/hero's journey is much older than Disney, and it's popular because we'd like to be believe it's how the world works. But GoT didn't do anything really new, except wrap some porn around the various murder plots.
  - NeutralCrane 2mo ago
    I could be misremembering but the Walking Dead season 1 and Game of Thrones season 1 came out around the same time, but didn’t really kill of any major characters until after the first season. Both are based on pre-existing material but GoT source material predates the Walking Dead by 7 years.
  - quuxplusone 2mo ago
    ... which started with "Night of the Living Dead"... :)
vova_hn2 2mo ago
If I haven't read any of her books, which book or series would you recommend as a starting point?
- habinero 2mo ago
  The Dispossessed. If you like that one, you'll like the rest of her work.
polotics 2mo ago
That "loosely" hides a bit of a tragedy on the Studio Ghibli adaptation: instead of accepting the transcendent Hayao Miyazaki work that she and we all deserved, she refused what she misunderstood would be a Disney-like cartoon... And instead of this, much later, the not-at-all ready son, Goro Miyazaki, had a go without having done the massive thought-work that you can for example glimpse Hayao doing on the emotional arc of Ponyo
WA 2mo ago
I beg to differ. Earthsea is a good example of "tell, don’t show". It goes on and on with explaining things that happen without the showing part. It’s outright boring. It might have been inspirational decades ago. Now, it reads dated. Tastes are different, but I’d not call it well-crafted at all.

gumby 2mo ago

A side point: when you say “Lewis” I assume you mean Charles Staple Lewis, not Sinclair Lewis. I find it hard to consider the former “foundational”. It was and is popular (much to the annoyance of his buddy Tolkien), but hardly influential in the way of JRRT (nobody writes poor pastiches on Narnia the way innumerable derivatives have been done on Middle Earth). As for Asimov, well, one can argue about his long term influence but who can avoid calling it foundation-al? Agree completely on Le Guin

Robotbeat 2mo ago
CS Lewis was pretty influential on the YA fiction, Harry Potter type of literature. And his other works also have broad influence beyond fiction.
majormajor 2mo ago
> hardly influential in the way of JRRT (nobody writes poor pastiches on Narnia the way innumerable derivatives have been done on Middle Earth) Harry Potter and its own spawn bears fairly distinct influences, less "direct plot copies" (Narnia itself borrowing heavily there from the Christian Bible, of course) but more mechanically and "YA fantasy vibes." His Dark Materials is basically a deliberate Narnia rebuttal/counter-argument. I think I've heard of a couple other "intentionally darker/twisted Narnia" inspirations in series, but am blanking on them. Terry Pratchett made a few direct references pointing that assumed a high level of ubiquity. IMO certainly as enduringly foundational as Asimov. Dick would belong there too at the same level of a Lewis or Asimov.
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]

xg15 2mo ago

> Barely anyone dies (no Red Weddings here) Can I make a side-rant how since Game of Thrones, it seems to have become an expectation that characters must be killed off? Apparently readers are (expected to) be so desensitized that nothing below "the main party that is the main reason you're reading this story can die at any moment" registers anymore. In fact, even that is just the bare minimum. To really make an impact, we need some mass casualties like the Red Wedding or Thanos' "snap" in the Avenger movies. Can we go back on all of that?

ModernMech 2mo ago
I think that all started with The Walking Dead
- GolfPopper 2mo ago
  Glen Cook was killing off major characters back in the 1980s.
  - TheOtherHobbes 2mo ago
    JG Ballard, John Brunner (and others) were writing miserabilist dystopias back in the 70s. Also, Dune, which is certainly not a "The good guys win" story. And movies like Soylent Green. The Disney trope turns out not to be a trope at all. The good guys win/hero's journey is much older than Disney, and it's popular because we'd like to be believe it's how the world works. But GoT didn't do anything really new, except wrap some porn around the various murder plots.
- NeutralCrane 2mo ago
  I could be misremembering but the Walking Dead season 1 and Game of Thrones season 1 came out around the same time, but didn’t really kill of any major characters until after the first season. Both are based on pre-existing material but GoT source material predates the Walking Dead by 7 years.
- quuxplusone 2mo ago
  ... which started with "Night of the Living Dead"... :)

vova_hn2 2mo ago

If I haven't read any of her books, which book or series would you recommend as a starting point?

habinero 2mo ago
The Dispossessed. If you like that one, you'll like the rest of her work.

polotics 2mo ago

That "loosely" hides a bit of a tragedy on the Studio Ghibli adaptation: instead of accepting the transcendent Hayao Miyazaki work that she and we all deserved, she refused what she misunderstood would be a Disney-like cartoon... And instead of this, much later, the not-at-all ready son, Goro Miyazaki, had a go without having done the massive thought-work that you can for example glimpse Hayao doing on the emotional arc of Ponyo

WA 2mo ago

I beg to differ. Earthsea is a good example of "tell, don’t show". It goes on and on with explaining things that happen without the showing part. It’s outright boring. It might have been inspirational decades ago. Now, it reads dated. Tastes are different, but I’d not call it well-crafted at all.