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Some people here think Wikimedia Foundation's mission is to keep Wikipedia up. That's a subset of their mission. I attribute nearly all of the blame to WMF, bec
by dannyw 3mo ago
Some people here think Wikimedia Foundation's mission is to keep Wikipedia up. That's a subset of their mission. I attribute nearly all of the blame to WMF, because their donation ads are quite deceptive.
The actual, public mission of Wikimedia Foundation:
> The mission of the Wikimedia Foundation is to empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally.
As such, WMF spends a lot money (combined) on a splatter of projects, like funding photographers to go to events like Fifa World Cup and Cannes, and take (CC or public domain) portraits for Wikimedia Commons (https://www.wikiportraits.org https://www.wikiportraits.org); etc.
- shimman 3mo agoThat's pretty cool and worthy endeavor. Having public domain pictures of cultural events seems like a worthy cause IMO.
- alt227 3mo agoThe point is when you go to Wikipedia and they are on a funding drive with their very prominent ads for donation requests, they dont mention any of this. They make it sound like wikipedia is very much at risk of dying due to lack of funds when in reality they are looking for more funding for programmes like this, which is where a lot of the mistrust and 'deceptive advertising' opinions come from.
- inigyou 3mo agoThey could tell us which programs.
- alt227 3mo agoThey could, but if their donation ads said for example 'please help us to take more photos of live events' instead of 'we need your help to keep wikipedia alive' then they would not get half the donations they do currently, which is the point.
- inigyou 3mo agoI agree, that you can lie to people to make more money. That's called fraud.
- Sabinus 3mo agoI wonder how well they would go if you could target your donation. Humble bundle did this and I appreciated it.
- bawolff 3mo agoIf the ads only mentioned a program that gets less than 1% of the budget, that would also be pretty deceptive
- joshspankit 3mo agoHonestly, I’ve never donated bc “keeping Wikipedia up” could be a solved problem by now. Not just cheaper processing and bandwidth costs, but p2p hosting, etc. Every time I see that ad, I say to myself “it should not be that expensive”. Now, if they had said “We need 200k to send CC photographers to the Olympics”, count me in. That sounds bigger and way more interesting!
- ReactiveJelly 3mo agoI don't even use Wikipedia anymore, I use the free online P2P encyclopedia. It's called
- Gander5739 3mo agoHosting isn't the expensive part, maintaining mediawiki is. For example, unifying the parser for the markup language: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid/Parser_Unification/en https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Parsoid/Parser_Unification/en
- account42 3mo agoMaintaining a shitty PHP website isn't that expensive either.
- bawolff 3mo agoDepends on how you define "hosting". CapEx costs for buying the servers is a non trivial expense (note: in accounting statements this isn't considered part of internet hosting). Not as much as software, but still expensive.
- bawolff 3mo agoP2P hosting doesn't really work in reality, especially for websites that change regularly and require quick propagation of those changes. Its not just Wikipedia. Name a high traffic site that actually uses p2p hosting. I'll wait. Bandwidth is also the sort of thing that gets way cheaper at scale than most people expect. When you are big enough there comes a point where the telecom companies want to connect to you because all their users want to access your website. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot (not all) of Wikimedia's bandwidth is actually free.
- akudha 3mo agoGenuinely curious - why is photographing FIFA World Cup important? It is a very wildly watched event, extremely popular. Literally every for-profit media is going to cover it. Wouldn’t that money be spent on lesser known, lesser popular events? Or even projects like photographing the effects of climate change etc - the events that for-profit media is unlikely to cover?
- krackers 3mo agoI guess maybe the reasoning is that because it's a watched event it's useful to have libre/public domain photos of it?
- dannyw 3mo agoThe for-profit media don’t release photos under freely available licenses. So we’re looking at those images being under copyright for ~100 years. Licenses do matter, just like open source.
- scarab92 3mo agoIf it’s really that important to people, they should be able to raise donations for that program in particular. Raising funding for Wikipedia, then diverting 90% of the funds for pet projects is dishonest at best, and most likely fraudulent. The other problem, is that the projects wikimedia foundation has historically funded have a notable political bias, to the point where it has been accused of being a pseudo-PAC.
- Kayvanian 3mo agoSpeaking as a WikiPortraits organizer: Wikipedia primarily uses free media, and the for-profit event coverage is of course usually not releasing their photos under free licenses. Our photos are released under Creative Commons for use by Wikipedia and, well, anyone, and big events like the World Cup are where we can capture a lot of the most notable people at scale. That being said, we're not just covering the big fancy events. We've done hundreds of events from indigenous festivals to minor league sports to science conferences. We've also donated equipment to wiki communities in Kenya, Ghana, and Benin to photograph their local events and culture, which are very undercovered on-wiki. The big events are what gets a lot of visibility and make the headlines but we do a lot more than that. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:WikiPortraits_by_event_type https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:WikiPortraits_by...
- jasonvorhe 3mo agoSo donating to Wikipedia actually funds commercial events? wtf.
- gruez 3mo agoOf all the controversial stuff that WMF does, "funding photographers to take royalty free photos for use on wikipedia" seems fairly low down the list.
- rho_soul_kg_m3 3mo agoWhat's at the top of the list?
- runarberg 3mo agoUnion busting as per TFA is a candidate for sure.
- dlubarov 3mo agoOne of WMF's more controversial expenditures was its $4.5 million "Knowledge Equity Fund", a grant program that tries to fight racial inequity. The recipients don't have to participate in Wikipedia or anything. They may be noble causes, but it's not how many Wikipedia donors expected their funds to be used, after seeing the donation banners begging for funds to keep Wikipedia running. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Equity_Fund https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_Equity_Fund
- bawolff 3mo agoAs stupid as that was, they at least put a stop to it. It hasn't been a thing for several years now.
- hobofan 3mo ago> WMF spends a lot money (combined) on a splatter of projects According to [0], they intend to spend $18m on community projects total, out of their total $240m FY26-27 budget[1]. $330k of that go to the WikiPortraits project[2]. Almost half of their expenses still go into "keeping Wikipedia up" (+ it's companion projects). I would hardly call that deceptive. [0]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Regions#Wikimedia_Community_Fund_budget https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Regions#Wikimedia_Com... [1]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2026-2027/Budget_Overview https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_... [2]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Programs/Wikimedia_Community_Fund/General_Support_Fund/WikiPortraits:2026-27_Activities https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Programs/Wikimedia_Co...
- idoubtit 3mo ago> Almost half of their expenses still go into "keeping Wikipedia up" (+ it's companion projects) That's a bit of a stretch. I couldn't find any up to date information, but for 2024-2025 WMF wrote: "Across the Product & Tech department, we plan on allocating an estimated 50% of our resources to Wiki Experiences, 30% to Signals and Services, 5% to Future Audiences, and the remaining 15% to Product and Engineering Services."[0] So "keeping Wikipedia up" is a very minor part (15%) of the "Investments in Technology" budget. It receives around 7% (15% of 48%) of the WMF total budget. That not to say the rest of those "Investments in Technology" is useless. It's just that it's mostly about developing features, like updating the Wikipedia app, or creating functions and Wikipedia Abstract. [0]: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Infrastructure https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_...
- kosh2 3mo agoThat is why I always say: Don't donate to wikipedia, donate to archive.org
- x______________ 3mo ago>That is why I always say: Don't donate to wikipedia, donate to archive.org Just learned from a 2 sec llm query that archive.org archives Wikipedia, neat! Wiki should still receive donations but archive should receive more as a valid backup mechanism (in case the prior goes dark for example).
- Sabinus 3mo agoDonate to both but archive.org has a higher priority.
- jenny8lee 3mo agoWikiPortraits organizer here. To give a sense of scope of project, at this point more than 1 out of every 50 pageviews on Wikipedia globally is illustrated with a WikiPortraits photo (and maybe more, we are still trying to digest what the surge from World Cup traffic means). Since our project started in January 2024, WikiPortraits photos have been viewed 5.8 billion times (https://sightglass.toolforge.org/results/iAi_KYlZs8ZXW9Xc/wikiportraits-uploads-jan-2024-to-jul-2026 https://sightglass.toolforge.org/results/iAi_KYlZs8ZXW9Xc/wi...). Of those, the ones I’m most proud of is finding a volunteer in Rome to take openly licensed pictures of the new Pope Leo XIV in May 2025 (Since all the commercial agencies and news outlets photos of Habemus Papum moment were not openly licensed, we did not have a “Pope as Pope” photo for Wikipedia, only older meh photos of him as a Bishop in Peru). Those new Pope photos, which were featured on the front page of many language Wikipedias, were viewed 50+ million times in their first month (nice feeling for a first time photographer!) WikiPortraits photos are CC-BY-SA, which means other (mostly smaller) media outlets can use with attribution (though we’ve seen them mangle that in all sorts of ways, but they are trying). These are generally orgs that cannot afford Getty or other agencies, though we have seen a WikiPortraits photo pop up at CNN Brasil. Fan Instagram accounts also like us. I personally think it makes the wiki experience more pleasant to have better photos. Here are some before/after: https://commons.gallery/@quirky/beforeafter https://commons.gallery/@quirky/beforeafter Even with the grants, WikiPortraits photographers are all volunteers. It’s what they do in their leisure time. (A number are professional photographers but they are donating their time to this project, or theg donate older photos they took on assignment where they control the rights). The main FIFA World Cup photographer is a Brooklyn high school teacher by day (also a comedian by night). His World Cup photos have been viewed 500 million times (“what I did l on my summer break”). Wikiphotography, like much of wiki, depends on a base of supercontributors. Where does the funding go to make educational open content? WikiPortraits pays for lodging, buying better equipment to lend folks (eg longer lenses so photos are not as grainy), a LOT of parking fee reimbursements, a meal if someone has been shooting for a long day. We also pay honoraria for experienced wiki folks to create Wikidata items or Commons categories behind photogs where necessary (Taking photos fun! Metadata not so fun). But WikiPortraits travel is generally a mix of people getting there themselves, using airline miles, and external donations (eg not funding from WMF. Some limited exceptions, but we’ve tried to keep that line pretty clear). We used American Airlines miles to get the World Cup photographer to Seattle for that Round of 16 game of US vs Belgium. Wiki ethos vibe. It’s easy to emphasize glamorous World Cup coverage (which gave us huge stats!). But a lot of the events photographed are things like AAAS and other academic conference, local book festivals, politicians at an event in Adelaide, Indian artists at a fair in Santa Fe. Volunteers grinding away to fill out wiki coverage in areas they are passionate about. What’s nice is at a time when new editor registrations are declining precipitously (LLMs?), photography has brought in a lot of new volunteers to the Wikiverse. Also it’s a noticeably different population. We are half female vs 15% female for wiki overall, and a lot more diverse, especially in the US (where Black Wikipedians are only .5-1.5% of the Wiki volunteer community). Photography is a fairly immediate high-impact, low-friction way to improve Wikipedia. LLMs may be able generate a text article. But they don’t (currently) have the ability to rally a community of photographers to go live events and take openly licensed photos for the world. Also what we appreciate, methodically covering events helps us find coverage gaps on wiki. We just covered a rodeo in Sheridan, Wyoming. The rodeo, despite being around since 1930s, did not have an article. Also more surprising, no article (or Wikidata item) for Indian Relay, a popular Native American horse racing sport where riders go bareback from horse to horse. It’s amazing to watch. Highly recommend. I spent a lot of creating wikidata items and articles for the teams, lead riders and tournaments just so we could match our photos to wiki. Contemporary art, as we discovered with the 2026 Venice Biennale, also has huge gaps of on wiki coverage. I’m willing to bet that dollar for dollar WikiPortraits may be some of the most effective community grants WMF has given in terms of on-wiki impact. One reason: you can take a single photo and it’s used in 200 wikis. Remember the WMF doesn’t get involved in editorial content. So the community grants help spur organized efforts like ours to help improve on-wiki content. We are looking for more volunteers! (Also if you have excess airline miles/hotel points you want to contribute for a good cause).