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The linked article doesn't even come close to suggesting money laundering. It really just argues that Wikimedia is similar to virtually every other successful o
by estearum 3mo ago
The linked article doesn't even come close to suggesting money laundering. It really just argues that Wikimedia is similar to virtually every other successful organization on earth and that its bloat grows with its resources.
Wow insightful.
The mere existence of The Mythical Man-Month or Peopleware does not prevent this behavior. Turns out it's actually super, super hard to avoid. It's pervasive enough to have several books written about it, and several more angry blogs written about specific companies' failure to achieve the allegedly "easy, obvious" thing that very, very few companies actually succeed at doing!
Makes me wonder if it's not so obvious or so easy... hmm... Nah, probably everyone else is malicious and/or stupid.
- cyanydeez 3mo agoIt is interesting how "enshittification" just happens because of scale.
- estearum 3mo agoPeople are really not curious enough about bureaucracy. We complain literally our entire lives about "bureaucracy" and all the bad outcomes it produces. But I've met literally no one who thought "hmm... if there's this emergent phenomenon across virtually every single large-scale human endeavor... and that phenomenon seems to systematically produce undesirable outcomes... at the cost of billions of dollars or millions of lives... maybe I oughta inspect this phenomenon more closely!"
- Turskarama 3mo agoPeople have been told for so long that private companies are more efficient than government that they have started to simply believe it, as if the problems of large scale organisation aren't universal.
- hkt 3mo agoSome cracks have emerged in that, at least in the UK. Trains, water companies, etc, all used as solid examples of private sector waste and extractiveness.
- graemep 3mo agoMost people attribute that entirely to greed or monopoly rather than to it being a result of scale. IMO its all three. More importantly politicians and the civil service still believe that the private sector is automatically efficient and that bigger is better. Not a UK only problem either.
- rixed 3mo ago"Bureaucracy" has been an entire field of study for more than a century at that point. But WMF is not bureaucracy any more than the FIFA is bureaucracy. It is curruption; That of the stated ideals of the origin: non profit, decentralisation and democracy.
- estearum 3mo agoMaybe so, but the linked article doesn't even allege, much less prove that.
- inigyou 3mo agoThis is called the Iron Law of Bureaucracy
- estearum 3mo agoWhich as your article points out, is as easy to solve as reading The Mythical Man-Month. That's why it's an Iron Law. It's easy to remove! Also, as you point out, it's actually the same as money laundering, which is an actual crime. So as it goes, every large organization is committing massive scale organized crime (to their own detriment, oddly enough), but they can stop doing so by just reading The Mythical Man-Month.
- inigyou 3mo ago> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.
- estearum 3mo agoYou started the thread accusing a non-profit of actual organized crime, and then linking to (someone else's?) words, implying they endorse your claim, when it doesn't. Not a time to flex the guidelines amigo. Maybe a time to clarify what you meant when you accused a bunch of people of a crime?
- tekla 3mo agoYes. everyone kinda sucks in their own ways. Mostly not enough to matter in their lives, but in large groups, the suck adds up.
- Gigachad 3mo agoEnshitification doesn’t just happen, it’s a choice to sacrifice quality and integrity for short term profit. There are plenty of large products and companies that haven’t gone this way.
- glenstein 3mo agoI don't think of non profit bloat as enshittification. Enshittification is gradual reduction in quality of a user facing service over time that used to be trusted. Here it's just a matter of (arguably) inefficient spending as fundraising had increased but I don't think there's any rollback in services.
- neilk 3mo agoAnother word whose usefulness has been degraded to just mean “bad behavior by an organization”. With “enshittification”, Doctorow meant something specific, where a platform rises to popularity by serving its users, then betrays those users to its business partners to make more money, then finally betrays even those business partners to keep most of the value for themselves. Anyway I guess Doctorow brought this on himself by choosing a word that’s fun to say but isn’t clear about what it refers to.
- inigyou 3mo agoDoctorow approved the generic use. He said he never meant for "enshittification" to only ever refer to the platform lock-in pattern. It refers to any way that things get worse on purpose.
- ameliaquining 3mo agoIf that's really the case, people should stop using the term as though it has explanatory power.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- llm_nerd 3mo agoMoney laundering has become a default catch all term for "monetary misuse / suboptimal allocation". At least among the general public. I worked in AML tech for a bank earlier in my career. I put up a fight against this misuse of terminology for a while, but eventually just gave up. Just embrace that everything is money laundering to many people and life is easier.
- estearum 3mo ago> Money laundering has become a default catch all term for "monetary misuse / suboptimal allocation". No it definitely has not
- llm_nerd 3mo agoAmong the generally misinformed public, which I was clearly referring to, yes, it absolutely has. Everything is money laundering. Do you think I was literally saying the financial definition has changed?
- hkt 3mo agoI don't think he thought that, he was probably expressing the view that he doesn't think the representative person's understanding of the term is the same as yours. I have to confess, I've never heard anyone talk about money laundering in the way you suggest.
- llm_nerd 3mo agoThe root of this thread literally uses it in the way I observed. So...never? It's literally right there! I see similar uses everywhere (speaking specifically of the general public, not financial industry professionals), calling every misallocation, misspend, or even simple fraud money laundering. Reddit, HN, Facebook, LinkedIn...everything is money laundering. Again, I'm kind of an expert in AML, so I probably pay attention to it way more than you do, and probably have a much better perspective on this. I constantly see people refer to almost all misuse or misallocation of funds as money laundering. Maybe you just don't know what money laundering actually is? Because the vast majority of the public certainly doesn't.