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Internet is the foundation of the global almost automated distribution networks and has brought the ability to target your consumers in a way that's cheap and e

Internet is the foundation of the global almost automated distribution networks and has brought the ability to target your consumers in a way that's cheap and effective. Usa exports tons of digital services that balance the trade ledger. I don't understand this stance.

agumonkey 2mo ago
what kind of digital service is worth that much ?
- literalAardvark 2mo ago
  Most of the big ones. Only issue is the US is crap at collecting tax from them.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
  - agumonkey 2mo ago
    sorry i was really asking, i'm quite jaded about internet and i don't see what's so valuable (of course all i see is reddit youtube ..)
    - literalAardvark 2mo ago
      All of Amazon, Apple, all the AI stuff, Google, including YouTube, yes. They make tons of money for the US. Value is somewhat more subjective, but Amazon for instance certainly creates an enormous amount of value, as do Google's search and maps products. I would argue that the democratisation of knowledge that YouTube has enabled is also very valuable.
      - agumonkey 2mo ago
        it's funny how I don't share the appreciation they're all very mild and are not a clear improvement over previous ways, amazon is full of confusing product reviews and false advertising (they did mutualize ~free home deliveries though), youtube is also loaded with bs, the good content is not that much better than a book the rare time it can claim it is (and I'd argue most of the time it's universities uploading videos they had already made before) I did love google maps but a bit less since they've made it a store locator more than a map.
        literalAardvark 2mo ago
        I attribute this to a hazy memory of "previous ways". Either that or you're in some very well supplied area. I remember not being able to get books, I remember walking for hours in the weather just to find a library that had what I needed, or a shop that sold some flange for the kitchen sink or a crappy 800mAh rechargeable battery for my Walkman despite 1200mAh existing. I remember trying to figure out where the heck we are/going using rotted out of date map books. I remember submitting CVs on foot until my legs stopped working. I remember knowing 0 people I could nerd out with about hacking. I suppose the bright side was that hacking wasn't illegal yet. And while I'm at it I also remember when MIT OCW came out. It was awesome, but it still sucked. YouTube is a marvel in comparison. Has Coursera done it better since? Sure. But there's room for more than one player. All of these digital tools have been dramatic quality of life improvements.
        _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
        I remember the shared energy/crowds/community feeling of shopping during the holiday season. I remember everyone singing along to songs. I remember when products where safe. Amazon sell fuses that don't work. Food that is doctored. Fake versions of everything. AI generated books. I remember when businesses were small enough we could and would boycott one that forced them employees to piss in bottles because 'efficiency'. I remember a ton of times Google maps just fed me straight bullshit. I remember when CVs weren't automatically rejected based on bullshit criteria/AI decisions without ever being looked at by a human being. I remember a thousand percent different/more authentic nerding out/hacking community than todays 'embraced' nerd/geek culture. All of these tools have a horrible side, and because of scale there's not much we can do about it (how do you verify what Google tells you isn't going to get you killed? https://www.sfgate.com/national-parks/article/google-map-rescue-22367661.php https://www.sfgate.com/national-parks/article/google-map-res... and the horrible side keeps growing, while the improvement seems to have mostly happened over a decade ago at this point, with techno optimism beaten out of most of us since then by the very companies that improved our lives a decade ago.
delusional 2mo ago
> Usa exports tons of digital services that balance the trade ledger. In the accepted framework of global trade, where exchange value is either confounded or accepted as a use value, this is a correct stance. I think where we'd end up disagreeing is on that equality. I don't believe that just because you can sell targeted advertising for millions of dollar, that it's actually millions of dollars worth of social use value. We'd have to bicker about the definition of use value, obviously, but I find it hard to imagine an argument for why writing adware at Google is worth the money people are getting paid for it, relative to useful manual labour. In much the same way I don't believe the CEO's labour is worth 100x what the employee is paid, I don't believe the Google Engineer is worth 5x the gardener maintaining a park. This spoken separation of use value and exchange value is missing from most internet opinions on the economy. I hope that somewhat helps you understand how the stance can exist, even if I haven't explained it deeply enough for you to actually accept it.
yorwba 2mo ago
The internet has certainly changed the composition of the economy a lot, so that a lot of services that used to be in-person are now available online. But GDP growth is about the difference in value production over time. Especially digital services that can be provided at high volume, because they're so cheap, don't add up to as much value when you multiply it out, and then you have to subtract the past value of the replaced services, so the GDP contribution is less than you'd naïvely expect from the growth in units sold.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  This is why I say GDP is a measure of price level.
inigyou 2mo ago
So the added value is that all of us are now being targeted? That doesn't sound that good.

agumonkey 2mo ago

what kind of digital service is worth that much ?

literalAardvark 2mo ago
Most of the big ones. Only issue is the US is crap at collecting tax from them.
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- agumonkey 2mo ago
  sorry i was really asking, i'm quite jaded about internet and i don't see what's so valuable (of course all i see is reddit youtube ..)
  - literalAardvark 2mo ago
    All of Amazon, Apple, all the AI stuff, Google, including YouTube, yes. They make tons of money for the US. Value is somewhat more subjective, but Amazon for instance certainly creates an enormous amount of value, as do Google's search and maps products. I would argue that the democratisation of knowledge that YouTube has enabled is also very valuable.
    - agumonkey 2mo ago
      it's funny how I don't share the appreciation they're all very mild and are not a clear improvement over previous ways, amazon is full of confusing product reviews and false advertising (they did mutualize ~free home deliveries though), youtube is also loaded with bs, the good content is not that much better than a book the rare time it can claim it is (and I'd argue most of the time it's universities uploading videos they had already made before) I did love google maps but a bit less since they've made it a store locator more than a map.
      - literalAardvark 2mo ago
        I attribute this to a hazy memory of "previous ways". Either that or you're in some very well supplied area. I remember not being able to get books, I remember walking for hours in the weather just to find a library that had what I needed, or a shop that sold some flange for the kitchen sink or a crappy 800mAh rechargeable battery for my Walkman despite 1200mAh existing. I remember trying to figure out where the heck we are/going using rotted out of date map books. I remember submitting CVs on foot until my legs stopped working. I remember knowing 0 people I could nerd out with about hacking. I suppose the bright side was that hacking wasn't illegal yet. And while I'm at it I also remember when MIT OCW came out. It was awesome, but it still sucked. YouTube is a marvel in comparison. Has Coursera done it better since? Sure. But there's room for more than one player. All of these digital tools have been dramatic quality of life improvements.
        _DeadFred_ 2mo ago
        I remember the shared energy/crowds/community feeling of shopping during the holiday season. I remember everyone singing along to songs. I remember when products where safe. Amazon sell fuses that don't work. Food that is doctored. Fake versions of everything. AI generated books. I remember when businesses were small enough we could and would boycott one that forced them employees to piss in bottles because 'efficiency'. I remember a ton of times Google maps just fed me straight bullshit. I remember when CVs weren't automatically rejected based on bullshit criteria/AI decisions without ever being looked at by a human being. I remember a thousand percent different/more authentic nerding out/hacking community than todays 'embraced' nerd/geek culture. All of these tools have a horrible side, and because of scale there's not much we can do about it (how do you verify what Google tells you isn't going to get you killed? https://www.sfgate.com/national-parks/article/google-map-rescue-22367661.php https://www.sfgate.com/national-parks/article/google-map-res... and the horrible side keeps growing, while the improvement seems to have mostly happened over a decade ago at this point, with techno optimism beaten out of most of us since then by the very companies that improved our lives a decade ago.

delusional 2mo ago

> Usa exports tons of digital services that balance the trade ledger. In the accepted framework of global trade, where exchange value is either confounded or accepted as a use value, this is a correct stance. I think where we'd end up disagreeing is on that equality. I don't believe that just because you can sell targeted advertising for millions of dollar, that it's actually millions of dollars worth of social use value. We'd have to bicker about the definition of use value, obviously, but I find it hard to imagine an argument for why writing adware at Google is worth the money people are getting paid for it, relative to useful manual labour. In much the same way I don't believe the CEO's labour is worth 100x what the employee is paid, I don't believe the Google Engineer is worth 5x the gardener maintaining a park. This spoken separation of use value and exchange value is missing from most internet opinions on the economy. I hope that somewhat helps you understand how the stance can exist, even if I haven't explained it deeply enough for you to actually accept it.

yorwba 2mo ago

The internet has certainly changed the composition of the economy a lot, so that a lot of services that used to be in-person are now available online. But GDP growth is about the difference in value production over time. Especially digital services that can be provided at high volume, because they're so cheap, don't add up to as much value when you multiply it out, and then you have to subtract the past value of the replaced services, so the GDP contribution is less than you'd naïvely expect from the growth in units sold.

inigyou 2mo ago
This is why I say GDP is a measure of price level.

inigyou 2mo ago

So the added value is that all of us are now being targeted? That doesn't sound that good.