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Didn't we get enough of this fight 20 years ago? Let's not piss off Dave Winer again. Reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better https://en.wikiped

Didn't we get enough of this fight 20 years ago? Let's not piss off Dave Winer again. Reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better

hardwaresofton 2mo ago
> Gabriel offers the examples of the adoption of C over Lisp, Unix over Lisp machines and VMS, and x86 over reduced instruction set computers as examples of technically worse solutions defeating more elegant ones by arriving to market first. Even (especially?) as a person that appreciates Lisp, Lisp losing this fight twice is kind of funny. Wonder if it’s going to happen an nth time with Guix vs Nix
- eikenberry 2mo ago
  Worse is better isn't about first to market, it was about simpler beating correct.
4ndrewl 2mo ago
Isn't this just VHS v Betamax again?
- humanfromearth9 2mo ago
  Only the porn industry can answer that question.
  - notpushkin 2mo ago
    Contrary to the popular belief, you can get porn on Atom.
    - DonHopkins 2mo ago
      At least you don't get fined for forgetting to rewind you Atom feed.
- leoc 2mo ago
  While a worse format surely could have won something like the video wars, it doesn't seem that VHS was in fact the worse format overall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyKRubB5N60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyKRubB5N60 (Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v019trxfcmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v019trxfcmg . Quality comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA ) Beta was basically optimised for one thing, reasonable cassette size, and the tradeoffs turned out probably not to be worth it.
  - notpushkin 2mo ago
    Moreover, the VHS cassete itself is arguably a better design! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWl9Wux7iVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWl9Wux7iVY
- chrismorgan 2mo ago
  Do video cassette recorders and players support both VHS and Betamax? Because essentially all feed readers support both Atom and RSS.
leoc 2mo ago
No thanks. We've spent enough decades living in squatter camps built on the ruins of other people's lazy decisions. It's past time to move out now. Worse is worse; worse is shit. And there's nothing endearing or funny about Winer's bad behaviour.
DonHopkins 2mo ago
I used to be on Dave Winer's scripting-news mailing list, and then somebody posted a request to be removed, so he removed them in a huff and then complained about how they hurt his feelings to the rest of the mailing list (not that they spammed the list, but that he was insulted they wanted off). After that, I was afraid to ask him to remove me too! I think I finally just moved on to another email address. There's supposed to be a mailing-list-name-REQUEST email address just for administrative questions like that, but so many people now don't even know or support that, and just send removal requests to the whole list. Instead of complaining about people asking the whole mailing list to be removed, there's a much better passive aggressive strategy: My favorite instance of emergent mailing list behavior was when a trouble maker named GUMBY created a "PLEASE-REMOVE-ME" mailing list, just for people who sent email to another entire mailing list asking to be removed from it, instead of sending their request to the administrator at mailing-list-name-REQUEST. Whenever somebody would make that faux-pas, he'd add them to the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, and the emergent behavior was that those people would discuss amongst themselves the fact that they really wanted to be removed from the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, until they eventually learned that the way to get removed from a mailing list was to simply send email to PLEASE-REMOVE-ME-REQUEST, instead of the entire mailing list. Worked like a charm!

Didn't we get enough of this fight 20 years ago? Let's not piss off Dave Winer again. Reminder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better

hardwaresofton 2mo ago

> Gabriel offers the examples of the adoption of C over Lisp, Unix over Lisp machines and VMS, and x86 over reduced instruction set computers as examples of technically worse solutions defeating more elegant ones by arriving to market first. Even (especially?) as a person that appreciates Lisp, Lisp losing this fight twice is kind of funny. Wonder if it’s going to happen an nth time with Guix vs Nix

eikenberry 2mo ago
Worse is better isn't about first to market, it was about simpler beating correct.

4ndrewl 2mo ago

Isn't this just VHS v Betamax again?

humanfromearth9 2mo ago
Only the porn industry can answer that question.
- notpushkin 2mo ago
  Contrary to the popular belief, you can get porn on Atom.
  - DonHopkins 2mo ago
    At least you don't get fined for forgetting to rewind you Atom feed.
leoc 2mo ago
While a worse format surely could have won something like the video wars, it doesn't seem that VHS was in fact the worse format overall: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyKRubB5N60 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyKRubB5N60 (Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v019trxfcmg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v019trxfcmg . Quality comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oJs8-I9WtA ) Beta was basically optimised for one thing, reasonable cassette size, and the tradeoffs turned out probably not to be worth it.
- notpushkin 2mo ago
  Moreover, the VHS cassete itself is arguably a better design! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWl9Wux7iVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWl9Wux7iVY
chrismorgan 2mo ago
Do video cassette recorders and players support both VHS and Betamax? Because essentially all feed readers support both Atom and RSS.

leoc 2mo ago

No thanks. We've spent enough decades living in squatter camps built on the ruins of other people's lazy decisions. It's past time to move out now. Worse is worse; worse is shit. And there's nothing endearing or funny about Winer's bad behaviour.

DonHopkins 2mo ago

I used to be on Dave Winer's scripting-news mailing list, and then somebody posted a request to be removed, so he removed them in a huff and then complained about how they hurt his feelings to the rest of the mailing list (not that they spammed the list, but that he was insulted they wanted off). After that, I was afraid to ask him to remove me too! I think I finally just moved on to another email address. There's supposed to be a mailing-list-name-REQUEST email address just for administrative questions like that, but so many people now don't even know or support that, and just send removal requests to the whole list. Instead of complaining about people asking the whole mailing list to be removed, there's a much better passive aggressive strategy: My favorite instance of emergent mailing list behavior was when a trouble maker named GUMBY created a "PLEASE-REMOVE-ME" mailing list, just for people who sent email to another entire mailing list asking to be removed from it, instead of sending their request to the administrator at mailing-list-name-REQUEST. Whenever somebody would make that faux-pas, he'd add them to the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, and the emergent behavior was that those people would discuss amongst themselves the fact that they really wanted to be removed from the PLEASE-REMOVE-ME mailing list, until they eventually learned that the way to get removed from a mailing list was to simply send email to PLEASE-REMOVE-ME-REQUEST, instead of the entire mailing list. Worked like a charm!