5 ms·

Atom is better than RSS in the way Betamax was better than VHS. With the same outcome and consequences for practical use.

thaumasiotes 2mo ago
What? Not at all. RSS is a product category. Many RSS feeds are, if you look into them, Atom. Your RSS reader just doesn't bother to tell you, because why would you care? Try putting a Betamax tape into a VHS VCR and see if you can watch it.
- superkuh 2mo ago
  Atom is a response to not wanting to support backwards compatibility like RSS does in order to improve things. https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234454/http://www.sixapart.com/about/news/2003/06/why_we_need_ech.html https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234454/http://www.sixapa... It's explicitly a different thing. This is like pointing at the monitor of a desktop computer and saying, "that's the computer". It is effective to communicate with people who aren't interested in computers, but it's also not true and the distinction does have important consequences for behavior. Atom is not RSS even if some feed readers support both and most people don't know what feeds are. And because of that, and the early popularity and widespread adoption of RSS, the better format (atom) isn't used nearly as much. And calls to increase use of betamax/atom generally went and go unheeded.
  - stymaar 2mo ago
    > and the early popularity and widespread adoption of RSS, the better format (atom) isn't used nearly as much. That may have been true 20 years ago, but now that pretty much no-one uses either of them , I'd be surprised if RSS was still meaningfully more widespread than Atom. (Except everything is being called RSS). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49141336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49141336 is the only valid response to your VHS/Betamax comparison, really.
    - verisimi 2mo ago
      I use RSS multiple times daily.
      - stymaar 2mo ago
        And you're also on HN, you're not exactly the average human being. Do you use “RSS” as a protol specifically, or do you use “RSS” as in “any feed no matter the protocol”?
        verisimi 2mo ago
        I was responding to the generic comment that: > pretty much no-one uses either of them
        stymaar 2mo ago
        And I stand with that phrase. I'm pretty sure that are more VHS users than RSS these days. It's not strictly zero, but it's a negligible fraction of internet users.
        superkuh 2mo ago
        I don't disagree. But I would also assert the absolute number of RSS users is probably higher than it has ever been. And that's what matters, not what "most people do" now that there are far more non-technical users on the internet than ever before.
      - kelnos 2mo ago
        One person using something doesn't mean it's popular.
        verisimi 2mo ago
        What can I say - its popular with me! Its also well supported, so that's something.
  - thaumasiotes 2mo ago
    > This is like pointing at the monitor of a desktop computer and saying, "that's the computer". Referring to an atom feed as an "RSS feed" is exactly equivalent to bringing Hydrox cookies to a potluck and hearing someone call them "Oreos".
  - fanf2 2mo ago
    Which of the nine incompatible versions of RSS supports backwards compatibility? https://web.archive.org/web/20110726002019/http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/02/04/incompatible-rss https://web.archive.org/web/20110726002019/http://diveintoma...
- benj111 2mo ago
  To extend the metaphor though. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VHS player that also has a beta max player. Or your blueray player that plays dvds and CDs....
  - thaumasiotes 2mo ago
    > To extend the metaphor though. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VHS player that also has a beta max player. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VCR that will play VHS and Betamax cassettes out of the same physical slot, in a world where videocassettes are sold with no indication of which format they've been printed in, and they're all the same shape, and there are no VCRs that can fail to play either format. > Or your blueray player that plays dvds and CDs.... Which, yes, is a lot like this, but absolutely nothing like VHS vs Betamax.
- LAC-Tech 2mo ago
  huh, I call the atom feed on my site an atom feed. I wonder if that confuses people...
  - thaumasiotes 2mo ago
    Yes, obviously it will.
    - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
      What a bitchy reply
jpease 2mo ago
As in we now use neither?
chias 2mo ago
Not relevant to the overall discussion, but this VHS vs Betamax thing is actually a myth, borne from confusing Betamax (a home consumer version, comparable and inferior to VHS) with Betacam (a professional format, which could use the same physical tapes as Betamax, albeit at much shorter runtimes so not suitable for movies).

thaumasiotes 2mo ago

What? Not at all. RSS is a product category. Many RSS feeds are, if you look into them, Atom. Your RSS reader just doesn't bother to tell you, because why would you care? Try putting a Betamax tape into a VHS VCR and see if you can watch it.

superkuh 2mo ago
Atom is a response to not wanting to support backwards compatibility like RSS does in order to improve things. https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234454/http://www.sixapart.com/about/news/2003/06/why_we_need_ech.html https://web.archive.org/web/20080216234454/http://www.sixapa... It's explicitly a different thing. This is like pointing at the monitor of a desktop computer and saying, "that's the computer". It is effective to communicate with people who aren't interested in computers, but it's also not true and the distinction does have important consequences for behavior. Atom is not RSS even if some feed readers support both and most people don't know what feeds are. And because of that, and the early popularity and widespread adoption of RSS, the better format (atom) isn't used nearly as much. And calls to increase use of betamax/atom generally went and go unheeded.
- stymaar 2mo ago
  > and the early popularity and widespread adoption of RSS, the better format (atom) isn't used nearly as much. That may have been true 20 years ago, but now that pretty much no-one uses either of them , I'd be surprised if RSS was still meaningfully more widespread than Atom. (Except everything is being called RSS). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49141336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49141336 is the only valid response to your VHS/Betamax comparison, really.
  - verisimi 2mo ago
    I use RSS multiple times daily.
    - stymaar 2mo ago
      And you're also on HN, you're not exactly the average human being. Do you use “RSS” as a protol specifically, or do you use “RSS” as in “any feed no matter the protocol”?
      - verisimi 2mo ago
        I was responding to the generic comment that: > pretty much no-one uses either of them
        stymaar 2mo ago
        And I stand with that phrase. I'm pretty sure that are more VHS users than RSS these days. It's not strictly zero, but it's a negligible fraction of internet users.
        superkuh 2mo ago
        I don't disagree. But I would also assert the absolute number of RSS users is probably higher than it has ever been. And that's what matters, not what "most people do" now that there are far more non-technical users on the internet than ever before.
    - kelnos 2mo ago
      One person using something doesn't mean it's popular.
      - verisimi 2mo ago
        What can I say - its popular with me! Its also well supported, so that's something.
- thaumasiotes 2mo ago
  > This is like pointing at the monitor of a desktop computer and saying, "that's the computer". Referring to an atom feed as an "RSS feed" is exactly equivalent to bringing Hydrox cookies to a potluck and hearing someone call them "Oreos".
- fanf2 2mo ago
  Which of the nine incompatible versions of RSS supports backwards compatibility? https://web.archive.org/web/20110726002019/http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/02/04/incompatible-rss https://web.archive.org/web/20110726002019/http://diveintoma...
benj111 2mo ago
To extend the metaphor though. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VHS player that also has a beta max player. Or your blueray player that plays dvds and CDs....
- thaumasiotes 2mo ago
  > To extend the metaphor though. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VHS player that also has a beta max player. An RSS reader that works with atom is the same as a VCR that will play VHS and Betamax cassettes out of the same physical slot, in a world where videocassettes are sold with no indication of which format they've been printed in, and they're all the same shape, and there are no VCRs that can fail to play either format. > Or your blueray player that plays dvds and CDs.... Which, yes, is a lot like this, but absolutely nothing like VHS vs Betamax.
LAC-Tech 2mo ago
huh, I call the atom feed on my site an atom feed. I wonder if that confuses people...
- thaumasiotes 2mo ago
  Yes, obviously it will.
  - LAC-Tech 2mo ago
    What a bitchy reply

jpease 2mo ago

As in we now use neither?

chias 2mo ago

Not relevant to the overall discussion, but this VHS vs Betamax thing is actually a myth, borne from confusing Betamax (a home consumer version, comparable and inferior to VHS) with Betacam (a professional format, which could use the same physical tapes as Betamax, albeit at much shorter runtimes so not suitable for movies).