3 ms·

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off

by ksymph 2mo ago

Not a great article, but a very real phenomenon. I recently picked up a banned Nintendo Switch Lite for cheap -- meaning it can't download games or updates off Nintendo's servers, but it can still play cartridge games. And while most games function, there are more often than not critical fixes or significant content updates missing. The console exists in a strange sort of limbo where everything is playable but not in its best form. The problem with Sony killing physical games (and the wider culture of digital purchases) is, unfortunately, a long-term one. Nobody will be seriously affected right now, as long as Sony's update servers are up and both digital and physical are supported. But 10, 20 years from now, both from a game preservation standpoint and from a consumer protection standpoint, this will be disastrous, when many games will still be charging outrageous prices (without the soft check of reselling/trading) or even no longer exist.

gymbeaux 2mo ago
This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.
- ksymph 2mo ago
  I've looked into it, and there doesn't seem to be any existing solution. You can transfer updates from one Switch to another, though, so if you have two Switches that opens up some options.
- bakugo 2mo ago
  The PS3 is a relic from an era where consoles being connected to the internet was still a relatively new concept, and security was a lot more lax. Newer consoles like the Switch are far more locked down, everything is signed/encrypted/verified/etc so any tinkering of that sort is impossible without a kernel code execution exploit. The only option for a banned Switch Lite is installing a modchip (there are people who will do it for you for a fee, well worth it imo).
  - keyringlight 2mo ago
    I'm fairly sure it's one of the reasons both MS and Sony went with AMD hardware from 2013 onwards, they can make use of the security/virtualization features their server platform has.
Wowfunhappy 2mo ago
What games? One thing I do appreciate about the Switch is that most first party games come fully playable on cartridge. I bought Splatoon Raiders the other day on the way to the train station for a long ride; I popped it in and started playing, never had any internet. It occurred to me later that I probably couldn't have done this for a third party title.
- ksymph 2mo ago
  There's a spreadsheet [0] tracking Switch games where you can see which ones have 'complete' versions on carts. It's roughly 1/4 for both first party and third party titles, though first party games are more likely to have cartridges released in a later run with updates included, while third party games are more likely to just have no updates. (Splatoon Raiders was released a week ago so I don't think that's a good example to use for games without updates. Even it has an update already, albeit a non-critical one) [0] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1CEABCBrPv1tWf89hSZqUunK0JW-sQo8XpxuvZhdtHQs/htmlview# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1CEABCBrPv1tWf89h...
  - Wowfunhappy 2mo ago
    > Splatoon Raiders was released a week ago so I don't think that's a good example to use for games without updates. ...I don't really see why. The question isn't whether a game has updates available, it's whether the un-updated version feels like a complete experience vs a compromised one. I'm not sure how to read the spreadsheet in that context.
    - ksymph 2mo ago
      > The question isn't whether a game has updates available, it's whether the un-updated version feels like a complete experience vs a compromised one. Exactly -- a game released a week ago is unlikely to have updates that could make it feel like a compromised experience. Take, say, Terraria. I had a blast playing it ten years ago, despite having a fraction of the content and polish it does now. Nonetheless, if that version was all I had access to today, it would feel like a compromised experience. Updates matter significantly more for some games than others. Sandbox games like Terraria and Minecraft often lie at one end, while at the other end you'll often find first-party Nintendo games, which typically receive a handful of bug fixes at most. Of course, how much playing a 'lesser' version bothers you personally varies greatly too. The spreadsheet just shows which games have fully updated versions available on cartridge.
Starlevel004 2mo ago
How did it get banned? Presumably it has a modchip inside which means that getting updates from alternative sources is still viable.
bobsmooth 2mo ago
The lite is hackable with enough effort. You could probably sideload updates and such.
LocalH 2mo ago
They should be required to unban a console given a clear proof of purchase from a previous owner
- LocalH 2mo ago
  I know it's "against HN etiquette" to ask about downvotes, but may I ask why I got downvoted? If it's clear that ownership changed from the original hacker to someone else, why should there not be an unban? I'd be fine if they required an "extra" check to make sure that the console is unmodded going forward. Otherwise, this contributes more to e-waste than a good chunk of Apple's iOS shenanigans.

by ksymph 2mo ago

gymbeaux 2mo ago

This made me think of how we have to manually block certain devices (usually smart TVs) so they don’t “phone home” and show us ads and so forth. I see your switch being banned as a sort of mixed blessing. It’s liberating in a way. I wonder if there’s some way to use a proxy to self host the software patches. We had something similar on the PS3 homebrew scene.

ksymph 2mo ago
I've looked into it, and there doesn't seem to be any existing solution. You can transfer updates from one Switch to another, though, so if you have two Switches that opens up some options.
bakugo 2mo ago
The PS3 is a relic from an era where consoles being connected to the internet was still a relatively new concept, and security was a lot more lax. Newer consoles like the Switch are far more locked down, everything is signed/encrypted/verified/etc so any tinkering of that sort is impossible without a kernel code execution exploit. The only option for a banned Switch Lite is installing a modchip (there are people who will do it for you for a fee, well worth it imo).
- keyringlight 2mo ago
  I'm fairly sure it's one of the reasons both MS and Sony went with AMD hardware from 2013 onwards, they can make use of the security/virtualization features their server platform has.

Wowfunhappy 2mo ago

What games? One thing I do appreciate about the Switch is that most first party games come fully playable on cartridge. I bought Splatoon Raiders the other day on the way to the train station for a long ride; I popped it in and started playing, never had any internet. It occurred to me later that I probably couldn't have done this for a third party title.

ksymph 2mo ago
There's a spreadsheet [0] tracking Switch games where you can see which ones have 'complete' versions on carts. It's roughly 1/4 for both first party and third party titles, though first party games are more likely to have cartridges released in a later run with updates included, while third party games are more likely to just have no updates. (Splatoon Raiders was released a week ago so I don't think that's a good example to use for games without updates. Even it has an update already, albeit a non-critical one) [0] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1CEABCBrPv1tWf89hSZqUunK0JW-sQo8XpxuvZhdtHQs/htmlview# https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1CEABCBrPv1tWf89h...
- Wowfunhappy 2mo ago
  > Splatoon Raiders was released a week ago so I don't think that's a good example to use for games without updates. ...I don't really see why. The question isn't whether a game has updates available, it's whether the un-updated version feels like a complete experience vs a compromised one. I'm not sure how to read the spreadsheet in that context.
  - ksymph 2mo ago
    > The question isn't whether a game has updates available, it's whether the un-updated version feels like a complete experience vs a compromised one. Exactly -- a game released a week ago is unlikely to have updates that could make it feel like a compromised experience. Take, say, Terraria. I had a blast playing it ten years ago, despite having a fraction of the content and polish it does now. Nonetheless, if that version was all I had access to today, it would feel like a compromised experience. Updates matter significantly more for some games than others. Sandbox games like Terraria and Minecraft often lie at one end, while at the other end you'll often find first-party Nintendo games, which typically receive a handful of bug fixes at most. Of course, how much playing a 'lesser' version bothers you personally varies greatly too. The spreadsheet just shows which games have fully updated versions available on cartridge.

Starlevel004 2mo ago

How did it get banned? Presumably it has a modchip inside which means that getting updates from alternative sources is still viable.

bobsmooth 2mo ago

The lite is hackable with enough effort. You could probably sideload updates and such.

LocalH 2mo ago

They should be required to unban a console given a clear proof of purchase from a previous owner

LocalH 2mo ago
I know it's "against HN etiquette" to ask about downvotes, but may I ask why I got downvoted? If it's clear that ownership changed from the original hacker to someone else, why should there not be an unban? I'd be fine if they required an "extra" check to make sure that the console is unmodded going forward. Otherwise, this contributes more to e-waste than a good chunk of Apple's iOS shenanigans.