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It is not proof of collusion that they abandoned bespoke hardware right as consumer hardware was getting good. That is exactly when you want to abandon bespoke

It is not proof of collusion that they abandoned bespoke hardware right as consumer hardware was getting good. That is exactly when you want to abandon bespoke hardware. It is not proof of collusion that neither one lowered prices for the cheaper tech. Both were trying to appease shareholders who were sick of the massive up front capital investment that heavily subsidized hardware caused. Again: both had the same incentives, and so independently came to the same conclusions. If they were colluding, Xbox wouldn't've declaratively lost that generation, and with the department on fire today and in danger of being restructured, Sharma would right now be executing one of these strategies you are saying is a smart idea. The world is not full of conspiracies. You will understand it much better if you look for the actual reason things happen.

somenameforme 2mo ago
Since you're ignoring words and just repeating the same fallacies, I'll respond in bullet point format to make it easier for you to read: - Retail vs customized hardware has nothing whatsoever to do with subsidized or not. You can have subsidized retail hardware, or custom hardware sold for profit. - Agreeing to collude on one issue that is mutually beneficial does not preclude competition in other ways. - There have been tens of thousands lawsuits related to price-fixing and other anti-competitive behavior by corporations, and an unknowable of actions that were carried out with no consequences whatsoever, like this one. It happens constantly, because it's highly profitable and the consequences even when caught tend to be negligible. --- Back to words: Sony and Microsoft were in a prisoner's dilemma with regards to subsidization and high end hardware. If they both collude, then they both see major profit increases and live happily ever after. But if either of them actually competed then they'd end up crushing the other one and take the market, at least in large part, for themselves. In a competitive environment, this is precisely why you saw heavily subsidized high end hardware be the norm for consoles for decades. Neither could risk the possibility of not subsidizing. Then suddenly Microsoft and Sony stop doing so at the exact same time. It was both extremely overt but also impossible to prove so long as they didn't leave a paper trail.
- pie_flavor 2mo ago
  "You're ignoring what I said", says the guy who proceeds to repeat himself ignoring what I said. > You "can" have subsidized retail hardware But neither corporation's shareholders wanted them to for capital reasons. > or custom hardware sold for a profit But that'd be an insane waste of money for a platform that's more inconvenient to develop for. > Agreeing to collude on one issue that is mutually beneficial does not preclude competition in other ways. But when you're in danger of going under, it's time to stop leaving cash on the table properly, especially when you will win a bidding war. > There have been tens of thousands lawsuits related to price-fixing and other anti-competitive behavior by corporations But not against these corporations in this context. > you saw heavily subsidized high end hardware be the norm for consoles for decades Because in that span of time it was a good idea: they had lots of cash and were pushing the envelope of what hardware was capable of. > Then suddenly Microsoft and Sony stop doing so at the exact same time Because in that span of time, it stopped being a good idea: PC hardware had started being ahead of what they could offer. And you are calling an eleven year period "exact same time". > extremely overt but also impossible to prove so long as they didn't leave a paper trail. In other words, you have literally zero evidence this is true and are just going off of vibes, even though as I've just laid out, everything that happened is exactly what you'd expect to have happened if they weren't.
  - somenameforme 2mo ago
    I'm not ignoring what you're saying - you're just repeating plainly falsifiable or illogical claims. By contrast you've laid out no reasonable arguments to what I've said. You even tried to claim companies engaging in anticompetitive was some sort of inconceivable conspiracy, in spite of the fact that Sony and Microsoft have been repeatedly busted for anticompete conspiracies, even within the Playstation and XBox section of their business. You're concocting unsound bad faith arguments, and then repeating them. And once again, if either company actually competed on hardware from the PS4 gen onward, they would have dominated the market. They chose to collude instead which maximized revenue, but only thanks to the collusion. And the person who paid for this is the consumer who was left paying much more than they normally would to get much less than they normally would.

somenameforme 2mo ago

Since you're ignoring words and just repeating the same fallacies, I'll respond in bullet point format to make it easier for you to read: - Retail vs customized hardware has nothing whatsoever to do with subsidized or not. You can have subsidized retail hardware, or custom hardware sold for profit. - Agreeing to collude on one issue that is mutually beneficial does not preclude competition in other ways. - There have been tens of thousands lawsuits related to price-fixing and other anti-competitive behavior by corporations, and an unknowable of actions that were carried out with no consequences whatsoever, like this one. It happens constantly, because it's highly profitable and the consequences even when caught tend to be negligible. --- Back to words: Sony and Microsoft were in a prisoner's dilemma with regards to subsidization and high end hardware. If they both collude, then they both see major profit increases and live happily ever after. But if either of them actually competed then they'd end up crushing the other one and take the market, at least in large part, for themselves. In a competitive environment, this is precisely why you saw heavily subsidized high end hardware be the norm for consoles for decades. Neither could risk the possibility of not subsidizing. Then suddenly Microsoft and Sony stop doing so at the exact same time. It was both extremely overt but also impossible to prove so long as they didn't leave a paper trail.

pie_flavor 2mo ago
"You're ignoring what I said", says the guy who proceeds to repeat himself ignoring what I said. > You "can" have subsidized retail hardware But neither corporation's shareholders wanted them to for capital reasons. > or custom hardware sold for a profit But that'd be an insane waste of money for a platform that's more inconvenient to develop for. > Agreeing to collude on one issue that is mutually beneficial does not preclude competition in other ways. But when you're in danger of going under, it's time to stop leaving cash on the table properly, especially when you will win a bidding war. > There have been tens of thousands lawsuits related to price-fixing and other anti-competitive behavior by corporations But not against these corporations in this context. > you saw heavily subsidized high end hardware be the norm for consoles for decades Because in that span of time it was a good idea: they had lots of cash and were pushing the envelope of what hardware was capable of. > Then suddenly Microsoft and Sony stop doing so at the exact same time Because in that span of time, it stopped being a good idea: PC hardware had started being ahead of what they could offer. And you are calling an eleven year period "exact same time". > extremely overt but also impossible to prove so long as they didn't leave a paper trail. In other words, you have literally zero evidence this is true and are just going off of vibes, even though as I've just laid out, everything that happened is exactly what you'd expect to have happened if they weren't.
- somenameforme 2mo ago
  I'm not ignoring what you're saying - you're just repeating plainly falsifiable or illogical claims. By contrast you've laid out no reasonable arguments to what I've said. You even tried to claim companies engaging in anticompetitive was some sort of inconceivable conspiracy, in spite of the fact that Sony and Microsoft have been repeatedly busted for anticompete conspiracies, even within the Playstation and XBox section of their business. You're concocting unsound bad faith arguments, and then repeating them. And once again, if either company actually competed on hardware from the PS4 gen onward, they would have dominated the market. They chose to collude instead which maximized revenue, but only thanks to the collusion. And the person who paid for this is the consumer who was left paying much more than they normally would to get much less than they normally would.