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Most of the backers for the espresso machine project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine http://www.kickstarter.com

Most of the backers for the espresso machine project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controlled-espresso-machine http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpmespresso/pid-controll...) haven't received their rewards either, but we aren't up in arms ready to file a lawsuit either. I honestly don't see people making sacrifices -- the backers put in a few hundred dollars with the full knowledge that it takes a lot of work to make it happen. Kickstarter is not a rewards preordering system. You're not giving money expecting to see your reward show up on your doorstep "soon".

mnicole 14y ago
In creating this project, he agreed to the Terms of Use and it's within the folks' rights to request refunds at this point. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acco http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acc... I'm not a backer, just sympathetic to the situation on both sides, but an obligation is just that.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  He only has an obligation to refund if he decides to cancel the project. As far as we know, the project is still continuing so he has no obligation to fulfill the refunds. In the faq you linked, here's a choice quote: >It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.
  - dbecker 14y ago
    That quote is relevant if he is still making progress on the project. But I haven't heard any evidence of that. Unless he at least announces that he's still working on it, I think it's reasonable to treat it as canceled.
    - veemjeem 14y ago
      You probably didn't see the update, but Primer Labs announced that development is still continuing: http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues So backers should be patient and not threaten lawsuits because the project is taking too long.
      - jacalata 14y ago
        Or backers should go ahead and threaten a lawsuit because that appears to be the only way to force the developer to meet the 'being transparent' requirement in the terms quoted above?
  - bigiain 14y ago
    "As far as we know, the project is still continuing so he has no obligation to fulfill the refunds." While I agree with that completely, there's two different sorts of deliverables promised as rewards - the actual project output, which as you point out may only be delayed and not cancelled, but also the "trinkets". If he's really run out of money without having already paid for the tshirts and usb keys (and if it were me, probably also the "special packaging" promised for some rewards), then I think he's done something _very_ foolish.
  - dragonwriter 14y ago
    It is incorrect to state that he is only obligated to refund if he DECIDES to cancel the project. By the terms of service, he is obligated to refund if he is either unable or unwilling to provide the rewards. Legally, unwilling loosely corresponds to deciding to cancel the project (or, at least, deciding not provide the rewards), but inability would be judged by looking at capacity, not intent.

mnicole 14y ago

In creating this project, he agreed to the Terms of Use and it's within the folks' rights to request refunds at this point. http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acco http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/kickstarter%20basics#Acc... I'm not a backer, just sympathetic to the situation on both sides, but an obligation is just that.

veemjeem 14y ago
He only has an obligation to refund if he decides to cancel the project. As far as we know, the project is still continuing so he has no obligation to fulfill the refunds. In the faq you linked, here's a choice quote: >It's not uncommon for things to take longer than expected. Sometimes the execution of the project proves more difficult than the creator had anticipated. If a creator is making a good faith effort to complete their project and is transparent about it, backers should do their best to be patient and understanding while demanding continued accountability from the creator.
- dbecker 14y ago
  That quote is relevant if he is still making progress on the project. But I haven't heard any evidence of that. Unless he at least announces that he's still working on it, I think it's reasonable to treat it as canceled.
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    You probably didn't see the update, but Primer Labs announced that development is still continuing: http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues So backers should be patient and not threaten lawsuits because the project is taking too long.
    - jacalata 14y ago
      Or backers should go ahead and threaten a lawsuit because that appears to be the only way to force the developer to meet the 'being transparent' requirement in the terms quoted above?
- bigiain 14y ago
  "As far as we know, the project is still continuing so he has no obligation to fulfill the refunds." While I agree with that completely, there's two different sorts of deliverables promised as rewards - the actual project output, which as you point out may only be delayed and not cancelled, but also the "trinkets". If he's really run out of money without having already paid for the tshirts and usb keys (and if it were me, probably also the "special packaging" promised for some rewards), then I think he's done something _very_ foolish.
- dragonwriter 14y ago
  It is incorrect to state that he is only obligated to refund if he DECIDES to cancel the project. By the terms of service, he is obligated to refund if he is either unable or unwilling to provide the rewards. Legally, unwilling loosely corresponds to deciding to cancel the project (or, at least, deciding not provide the rewards), but inability would be judged by looking at capacity, not intent.