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> Things like this are easy with a simple agent loop. To be fair, they’re also easy (trivial, even) without one. It’s not like “play more music like this” is s

by latexr 3mo ago

> Things like this are easy with a simple agent loop. To be fair, they’re also easy (trivial, even) without one. It’s not like “play more music like this” is something we ever needed AI for.

embedding-shape 3mo ago
> It’s not like “play more music like this” is something we ever needed AI for. Borderline off-topic, but I love how fast the goal post moves. A decade or two ago "Similar music to this" was definitively in the realm of AI/ML, now it's some full-stack dev's afternoon to implement.
- moooo99 3mo ago
  I don‘t think someone disputes that this is in the realm of AI/ML. I just think its questionable if this kind of usecase is genuinely something were an LLM is necessary or outshines the more traditional approaches
- deleted 3mo ago
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- latexr 3mo ago
  What are you even talking about? No, of course music recommendation systems had nothing to do with LLMs two decades ago (which is obviously the crux of the discussion), that is insane. And no one has said anything about a “full-stack dev's afternoon”, I’ll kindly ask that you don’t straw man. No goal posts are moving, that fallacy does not mean “argument I don’t like or understand”. What happened to good faith discussion? It’s ever more common on HN that someone will just invent some argument in their head, attack that, then act like they are the arbiter of reason when they couldn’t even understand the argument. That’s not interesting. Engage with what was said.
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    > What are you even talking about? No, of course music recommendation systems had nothing to do with LLMs two decades ago (which is obviously the crux of the discussion), that is insane. Of course not, but just some years ago, when people talked about "AI" in ML circles, they weren't exclusively talking about LLMs, which you seemed to have automatically and exclusively associated "AI" with. It's much larger than just LLMs, although the ecosystem is flooded with LLMs at the moment. I thought this very movement, where tons of people, not just you, have this "AI === LLMs" association, when again, it used to not be so.
    - latexr 3mo ago
      So, in other words, you read what one person (you’re not talking to some vague notion of “people” in the past) wrote, associated it with other arguments you’ve seen (and quite possibly misinterpreted) before and decided to lump everything together and answer those different arguments and be kind of snarky about it. That attitude is exactly why online (and offline) discourse has gone in the gutter. Instead of addressing what was said and understanding nuance, you instead took the comment, labeled it in a preconceived box in your head, then attacked that group instead of engaging in good faith with the person you were talking to. And by the way, I’m very much aware of the difference between AI and LLM, but whether you like it or not the terms are conflated today and being pedantic about it is a losing battle. In this case it was patently obvious what was meant. You’re (presumably) not an automaton and are thus (presumably) capable of understanding the difference, meaning you are definitely able to choose to steel man instead of straw manning.
      - embedding-shape 3mo ago
        > than attacked that group instead What on earth are you on about? Take a breath, I'm not arguing for/against anything at all, I conceded myself it's "borderline off-topic", you don't have to take it as I'm trying to challenge anyone's worldview or anything, it's basically an offhand observation. > man instead of straw manning. You may not actually understand what a "straw man" is, as I haven't even attempted to refute or engage in any argumentation at all. Anyway, clearly a fruitless conversation to continue, I'm not sure who you're arguing against/for here, I didn't intended to even try to argue against/for anything here, so I'm just gonna peace out. Hope you enjoy the rest of your Saturday as much as I've enjoyed mine so far!
JamesSwift 3mo ago
The true power of LLM powered interfaces is the malleability of the whole thing. Sure you can write traditional software to handle “more like this”, but how hard would it be to handle “more like this but uptempo”, “more like this but not the same artist”, ad infinitum? I have a bunch of skills Ive created for random work that have “predefined interfaces” like a single url. I very frequently trigger these skills with freetext prompts instead and get all the intelligence of the skill while bypassing what it was actually designed for. This aspect of malleable API is extremely powerful and is probably the only reason I keep AI in the loop of some of my custom software vs removing it and avoiding the cost/nondeterminism.
- deleted 3mo ago
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deleted 3mo ago
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by latexr 3mo ago

> Things like this are easy with a simple agent loop. To be fair, they’re also easy (trivial, even) without one. It’s not like “play more music like this” is something we ever needed AI for.

embedding-shape 3mo ago

> It’s not like “play more music like this” is something we ever needed AI for. Borderline off-topic, but I love how fast the goal post moves. A decade or two ago "Similar music to this" was definitively in the realm of AI/ML, now it's some full-stack dev's afternoon to implement.

moooo99 3mo ago
I don‘t think someone disputes that this is in the realm of AI/ML. I just think its questionable if this kind of usecase is genuinely something were an LLM is necessary or outshines the more traditional approaches
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
latexr 3mo ago
What are you even talking about? No, of course music recommendation systems had nothing to do with LLMs two decades ago (which is obviously the crux of the discussion), that is insane. And no one has said anything about a “full-stack dev's afternoon”, I’ll kindly ask that you don’t straw man. No goal posts are moving, that fallacy does not mean “argument I don’t like or understand”. What happened to good faith discussion? It’s ever more common on HN that someone will just invent some argument in their head, attack that, then act like they are the arbiter of reason when they couldn’t even understand the argument. That’s not interesting. Engage with what was said.
- embedding-shape 3mo ago
  > What are you even talking about? No, of course music recommendation systems had nothing to do with LLMs two decades ago (which is obviously the crux of the discussion), that is insane. Of course not, but just some years ago, when people talked about "AI" in ML circles, they weren't exclusively talking about LLMs, which you seemed to have automatically and exclusively associated "AI" with. It's much larger than just LLMs, although the ecosystem is flooded with LLMs at the moment. I thought this very movement, where tons of people, not just you, have this "AI === LLMs" association, when again, it used to not be so.
  - latexr 3mo ago
    So, in other words, you read what one person (you’re not talking to some vague notion of “people” in the past) wrote, associated it with other arguments you’ve seen (and quite possibly misinterpreted) before and decided to lump everything together and answer those different arguments and be kind of snarky about it. That attitude is exactly why online (and offline) discourse has gone in the gutter. Instead of addressing what was said and understanding nuance, you instead took the comment, labeled it in a preconceived box in your head, then attacked that group instead of engaging in good faith with the person you were talking to. And by the way, I’m very much aware of the difference between AI and LLM, but whether you like it or not the terms are conflated today and being pedantic about it is a losing battle. In this case it was patently obvious what was meant. You’re (presumably) not an automaton and are thus (presumably) capable of understanding the difference, meaning you are definitely able to choose to steel man instead of straw manning.
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      > than attacked that group instead What on earth are you on about? Take a breath, I'm not arguing for/against anything at all, I conceded myself it's "borderline off-topic", you don't have to take it as I'm trying to challenge anyone's worldview or anything, it's basically an offhand observation. > man instead of straw manning. You may not actually understand what a "straw man" is, as I haven't even attempted to refute or engage in any argumentation at all. Anyway, clearly a fruitless conversation to continue, I'm not sure who you're arguing against/for here, I didn't intended to even try to argue against/for anything here, so I'm just gonna peace out. Hope you enjoy the rest of your Saturday as much as I've enjoyed mine so far!

JamesSwift 3mo ago

The true power of LLM powered interfaces is the malleability of the whole thing. Sure you can write traditional software to handle “more like this”, but how hard would it be to handle “more like this but uptempo”, “more like this but not the same artist”, ad infinitum? I have a bunch of skills Ive created for random work that have “predefined interfaces” like a single url. I very frequently trigger these skills with freetext prompts instead and get all the intelligence of the skill while bypassing what it was actually designed for. This aspect of malleable API is extremely powerful and is probably the only reason I keep AI in the loop of some of my custom software vs removing it and avoiding the cost/nondeterminism.

deleted 3mo ago
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