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Many people learn their skills on the job. Setting an artificial lower limit of what they are allowed to work for prevents some people from starting to climb a

Many people learn their skills on the job. Setting an artificial lower limit of what they are allowed to work for prevents some people from starting to climb a ladder toward higher skills and higher wages. Regarding just hiring the person managing the labor to do the work: Don't forget that one person can manage multiple people.

bjourne 14y ago
Surely you must be joking right? How on earth would someone earning < minimum wage try to start climbing the corporate ladder? If you clean toilets you don't learn any valuable skills, you won't someday be promoted to manager of the cleaning staff and you can't walk in to your boss and demand a higher salary because you're now an expert at cleaning toilets.
- jlgreco 14y ago
  The churn rate at, for example, fast food joints is high enough that you can secure (piss poor, initially) promotions by simply not being a teenager that only works there for 3 months. By no means is it easy, but very modest "climbing" is very common in the fast food sector. Skill has nothing to do with low-level promotions, it is all about reliability. The guy yelling at the toilet scrubber doesn't have his job because he is particularly skilled at yelling at toilet scrubbers.
- Domenic_S 14y ago
  The impact is evident in apprenticeships. We've got a lot of laws about them that makes them tough to run, and a small shop won't usually do it for fear of being crushed by the Labor Dep't. But consider, if a HS dropout could learn how to wrench on a car for $2/hour, maybe they could get a full auto tech position (at a living wage) later on, without the crushing debt of trade school.
- markshead 14y ago
  Yes, someone who starts out cleaning does learn skills. They can become better at cleaning than the average person. They will know how to clean really bad messes without getting grossed out by it. They will know how to dispose of the stuff they clean. They will know how to clean efficiently and without wasting time. They will know what type of cleaning supplies to use. That may not make them a manager, but there are jobs that pay higher than minimum wage that require the ability to clean as a skill. Often those jobs come with new skills to be learned. And yes, someone who has some degree of management potential could definitely start out cleaning toilets for minimum wage and work their way up to managing the cleaning staff somewhere.
- marshray 14y ago
  For a short while I worked for close to minimum wage washing dishes in restaurants. On my breaks I would read microprocessor manuals. One day, a customer saw me reading such a book and we struck up a conversation. He worked at a small technical shop where everyone was basically commission-only for repairing computers. I knew quite a bit about electronics and we were one of the few shops in the area that could repair monitors. (This was back when they were expensive.) To make a long story short, today I'm a Senior Software Developer at a large company. I'm happy enough without any aspirations to management at this time :-) I agree with you that you don't learn a lot of great marketable skills by scrubbing things clean. But such a job, by itself, can't stop you from learning if you're determined.
- Dove 14y ago
  you won't someday be promoted to manager of the cleaning staff Actually, that's exactly what will happen. You'll do the job. Then you'll learn how to do it well. Then your job will be to teach others to do it well. Then you'll become an assistant manager, making sure people have the training and equipment to do it well, and handling problems that others don't have the experience for. Then you'll become a manager because you know how to handle people and make that part of the business succeed. Then you'll become a higher level manager because you know how to make a team of workers successful. That's not a far-fetched scenario. That's exactly what happens in many organizations. It's not the only way into leadership, but it is a well-trodden path.
  - duncan_bayne 14y ago
    Anectodal evidence but: that's exactly the route my father took. From working on the assembly line to managing planning & logistics from the company, learning and contributing at every step of the way. He started with no relevant qualifications, and wound up with a bunch of industry certifications too.

bjourne 14y ago

Surely you must be joking right? How on earth would someone earning < minimum wage try to start climbing the corporate ladder? If you clean toilets you don't learn any valuable skills, you won't someday be promoted to manager of the cleaning staff and you can't walk in to your boss and demand a higher salary because you're now an expert at cleaning toilets.

jlgreco 14y ago
The churn rate at, for example, fast food joints is high enough that you can secure (piss poor, initially) promotions by simply not being a teenager that only works there for 3 months. By no means is it easy, but very modest "climbing" is very common in the fast food sector. Skill has nothing to do with low-level promotions, it is all about reliability. The guy yelling at the toilet scrubber doesn't have his job because he is particularly skilled at yelling at toilet scrubbers.
Domenic_S 14y ago
The impact is evident in apprenticeships. We've got a lot of laws about them that makes them tough to run, and a small shop won't usually do it for fear of being crushed by the Labor Dep't. But consider, if a HS dropout could learn how to wrench on a car for $2/hour, maybe they could get a full auto tech position (at a living wage) later on, without the crushing debt of trade school.
markshead 14y ago
Yes, someone who starts out cleaning does learn skills. They can become better at cleaning than the average person. They will know how to clean really bad messes without getting grossed out by it. They will know how to dispose of the stuff they clean. They will know how to clean efficiently and without wasting time. They will know what type of cleaning supplies to use. That may not make them a manager, but there are jobs that pay higher than minimum wage that require the ability to clean as a skill. Often those jobs come with new skills to be learned. And yes, someone who has some degree of management potential could definitely start out cleaning toilets for minimum wage and work their way up to managing the cleaning staff somewhere.
marshray 14y ago
For a short while I worked for close to minimum wage washing dishes in restaurants. On my breaks I would read microprocessor manuals. One day, a customer saw me reading such a book and we struck up a conversation. He worked at a small technical shop where everyone was basically commission-only for repairing computers. I knew quite a bit about electronics and we were one of the few shops in the area that could repair monitors. (This was back when they were expensive.) To make a long story short, today I'm a Senior Software Developer at a large company. I'm happy enough without any aspirations to management at this time :-) I agree with you that you don't learn a lot of great marketable skills by scrubbing things clean. But such a job, by itself, can't stop you from learning if you're determined.
Dove 14y ago
you won't someday be promoted to manager of the cleaning staff Actually, that's exactly what will happen. You'll do the job. Then you'll learn how to do it well. Then your job will be to teach others to do it well. Then you'll become an assistant manager, making sure people have the training and equipment to do it well, and handling problems that others don't have the experience for. Then you'll become a manager because you know how to handle people and make that part of the business succeed. Then you'll become a higher level manager because you know how to make a team of workers successful. That's not a far-fetched scenario. That's exactly what happens in many organizations. It's not the only way into leadership, but it is a well-trodden path.
- duncan_bayne 14y ago
  Anectodal evidence but: that's exactly the route my father took. From working on the assembly line to managing planning & logistics from the company, learning and contributing at every step of the way. He started with no relevant qualifications, and wound up with a bunch of industry certifications too.