4 ms·

Irrelevant. Humans are frail and we shouldn't design systems with dark patterns that take advantage of human frailty.

mdp2021 2mo ago
> we shouldn't design systems with dark patterns that take advantage of human frailty First of all: «humans are frail», so the paramount social and individual objective, goal, is to overcome frailty (in cognitive and psychological and judgement functions). Secondly: you are using a bad argument putting even innocent and somehow proper implementations in the set of "exploitative dark patterns". And importantly: we the adults must not be bound in the Procuste's bed of a world for the use of children. If people cry when e.g. somebody multiplies 123 and 321, they must be brought back to health, and we must be in the condition of making our free and legitimate multiplications.
- ForHackernews 2mo ago
  That's a lot of fancy words to say, "I think I'm too smart to fall for the same tricks that work on other humans." How many hours did you spend on your phone last month? How many fewer hours would you have spent if the apps you interact with weren't designed to maximize "engagement"?
  - mdp2021 2mo ago
    > How many hours did you spend on your phone last month? How many fewer hours would you have spent if the apps you interact with weren't designed to maximize "engagement"? ?? Very strictly zero? You are assuming we would install engagement-relevant third party apps on our palm computers?! I use my time exactly as I decide moment to moment. > fancy Eh?! > too smart to fall for Very ill framed. We are adults, we behave like adults, and we need a society of adults.
    - ForHackernews 2mo ago
      Millions of adults get hooked by gambling, social media, and AI that pretends to be a person. We need a better standard than "@mdp2021 thinks he's too grown up for this."
      - mdp2021 2mo ago
        The standard is "do grow up; build a society that facilitates growing up; and do not hinder adults with rules for children - that is very much not a society". And your insulting attitude disservices the loser more than the normal people: you know, there are people who can count, there are people who won't lie, there are people who do not take drugs... There do exist adults.
        ForHackernews 2mo ago
        You're arguing that we should be deliberately build evil and manipulative technology... why? To assert your own superior discernment?
        mdp2021 2mo ago
        Nobody has said that one should build «evil and manipulative technology». An interlocutor that says "I" is not «evil and manipulative technology». People (normal people) are not manipulated by a generator that says "I". There is an I in that generator (it is the generator that outputs its output); and those who have weakminded reactions in front of innocent phenomena (e.g. those who would believe that "My name is Ishmael" declares the name of the book, that their instance of Moby Dick would want to be called Ishmael) cannot propose their fault as a norm for the rest. Those who said that e.g. the colour red arouses them beyond self control cannot demand that we put red paint out of commerce: they have no "right" to be wierdly aroused by the colour red, and we are entitled to using red and every other normal thing that is so grave to people with unjustified problems. If people fainted when one said "pudding", they should seek for health, and they cannot demand that we stop saying "pudding". Their mental illness is "their problem" (not something that should condition us), and a societal problem - in terms that people should be facilitated in becoming healthy.

mdp2021 2mo ago

> we shouldn't design systems with dark patterns that take advantage of human frailty First of all: «humans are frail», so the paramount social and individual objective, goal, is to overcome frailty (in cognitive and psychological and judgement functions). Secondly: you are using a bad argument putting even innocent and somehow proper implementations in the set of "exploitative dark patterns". And importantly: we the adults must not be bound in the Procuste's bed of a world for the use of children. If people cry when e.g. somebody multiplies 123 and 321, they must be brought back to health, and we must be in the condition of making our free and legitimate multiplications.

ForHackernews 2mo ago
That's a lot of fancy words to say, "I think I'm too smart to fall for the same tricks that work on other humans." How many hours did you spend on your phone last month? How many fewer hours would you have spent if the apps you interact with weren't designed to maximize "engagement"?
- mdp2021 2mo ago
  > How many hours did you spend on your phone last month? How many fewer hours would you have spent if the apps you interact with weren't designed to maximize "engagement"? ?? Very strictly zero? You are assuming we would install engagement-relevant third party apps on our palm computers?! I use my time exactly as I decide moment to moment. > fancy Eh?! > too smart to fall for Very ill framed. We are adults, we behave like adults, and we need a society of adults.
  - ForHackernews 2mo ago
    Millions of adults get hooked by gambling, social media, and AI that pretends to be a person. We need a better standard than "@mdp2021 thinks he's too grown up for this."
    - mdp2021 2mo ago
      The standard is "do grow up; build a society that facilitates growing up; and do not hinder adults with rules for children - that is very much not a society". And your insulting attitude disservices the loser more than the normal people: you know, there are people who can count, there are people who won't lie, there are people who do not take drugs... There do exist adults.
      - ForHackernews 2mo ago
        You're arguing that we should be deliberately build evil and manipulative technology... why? To assert your own superior discernment?
        mdp2021 2mo ago
        Nobody has said that one should build «evil and manipulative technology». An interlocutor that says "I" is not «evil and manipulative technology». People (normal people) are not manipulated by a generator that says "I". There is an I in that generator (it is the generator that outputs its output); and those who have weakminded reactions in front of innocent phenomena (e.g. those who would believe that "My name is Ishmael" declares the name of the book, that their instance of Moby Dick would want to be called Ishmael) cannot propose their fault as a norm for the rest. Those who said that e.g. the colour red arouses them beyond self control cannot demand that we put red paint out of commerce: they have no "right" to be wierdly aroused by the colour red, and we are entitled to using red and every other normal thing that is so grave to people with unjustified problems. If people fainted when one said "pudding", they should seek for health, and they cannot demand that we stop saying "pudding". Their mental illness is "their problem" (not something that should condition us), and a societal problem - in terms that people should be facilitated in becoming healthy.