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Kickstarter backers ready class action lawsuit against Code Hero dev

211 points by barredo 14y ago

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EthanHeilman 14y ago
Can anyone, in a short summary, explain what happened and why people are suing code hero?
- ninjin 14y ago
  I was equally confused, from what I found using Google [1] the project had a large amount of backing, was alive for a while and then everything went cold. Gradually the backers have now started turning on the project requesting refunds and now this. [1]: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121069-Code-Hero-Kickstarter-Goes-Bad http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121069-Code-Hero-K...
- elliotanderson 14y ago
  From Dustin Deckard (the class suit organiser) - "Alex Peake seems to have run out of money ($170k) after spending it recklessly, and doesn't plan on continuing with this project. There are well over 1000 backers out there who pledged for physical rewards. And, tragically, 6 backers who pledged at the $1k level who thought their money would be well spent on an educational tool for schools."
  - FireBeyond 14y ago
    "after spending it recklessly" I'm really curious as to how Dustin came to this conclusion - given that many people have stated the project has had multiple developers at times, and nearly a year or more of development. It's a claim with serious implications - wonder what the backing for it is?
    - veemjeem 14y ago
      It's also a false claim since CodeHero just posted an update saying that the project is continuing. Dustin was essentially lying through his teeth, because he had no evidence. He just wanted to incite a mob.
      - jff 14y ago
        You can post anything essentially for free. I can say right now, "I'm making the real Duke Nukem Forever, sorry it's taken so long but it'll be out Real Soon Now" and it doesn't cost me a goddamn thing. Hell, I can put out a press release to that effect for $50 and it'll go all over the drooling game sites. Doesn't make it true, doesn't mean I've done anything, it just means I posted an update.
        veemjeem 14y ago
        True, but honestly what do people think is right? People investing in kickstarter project are fully aware that the project could take a year or two to complete, it's not like he can suddenly pull the project out from his ass in a day. If people are going to threaten with lawsuits less than a year from the initial backing date, why did they bother investing in the first place?
    - deleted 14y ago
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- GauntletWizard 14y ago
  Code hero has had a rocky past; It was an indie darling, after a cool looking demo, but along the way the creator has done all the classic scam-artist things - Gone dark for a significant amount of time, been unclear on status in updates, gave strange and only half believable excuses for lack of progress. These are all trademarks of inexperienced devs, too, which is why it's hard to prove malfeasance. There was a demo at PAX, which I saw; It looked okay, but barely more than the unity dev tools. There was something slightly off about the person I talked to at the booth, they seemed oddly desperate, but I'd put it down to it being a slow day for them. I'm glad to see this fail, actually, if it fails - It was ambitious, and would have been cool, but if it fails it's a good wake-up call that these are, in fact, attempts - Not guarantees. I feel sorry for the ~20 people who put $1k+ into this for essentially nothing, but caveat emptor.
  - eli 14y ago
    I know nothing about the situation, but I would hesitate to attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by inexperience.
  - chimeracoder 14y ago
    > caveat emptor. Ironically, that doesn't even apply here - 'emptor' means 'buyer', but the whole point of Kickstarter is that you're not a buyer - you're a backer. Your point still stands; I just found the aphorism amusing, since the whole point is - as you said - that Kickstarter projects are attempts, not guarantees (purchases).
    - dragonwriter 14y ago
      But you are a buyer. By the terms of use of the site, you are purchasing the reward offered at the level you pledge, with a right to a full refund if the reward is not provided. The problem is that project creators are treating Kickstarter as if it were a source for speculative investment with no obligation to deliver rewards when Kickstarter's own terms make it a system for purchasing with a commit to deliver or refund.
  - dtf 14y ago
dljsjr 14y ago
I originally came here to make a "Kickstarter is not a store" comment. I totally side with the backers and their ire, and if the devs really did squander the money "recklessly" as indicated then they have what's coming to them but the chorus of "I'm officially requesting a refund" was making me thinking of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. Come to find out, from the Kickstarter ToS[1]: Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward. If Alex Peake really did blow through $170k and the product is in fact totally scrapped, then these folks (the Primer Labs folks) seem to be in a world of hurt, owing out a lot of money that they seemingly don't have anymore. And call me a jerk if you want, but I think this is probably the best thing that could happen to Kickstarter; a decent precedent gets set for what happens when you don't deliver on a physical product before the service gets so big that it gets totally out of hand. [1]: http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
- jaequery 14y ago
  to be fair, i don't think there were any evidence that Alex "recklessly" spent the money. a lot of things could've happened for his disappearance: health issue, gf problems, family problems, got lost in the mountain, etc etc
  - dljsjr 14y ago
    Correct. Which is why I prefaced my observation with "if [...]". Obviously, if that isn't the case, then my point is moot.
- TillE 14y ago
  "unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward." Read that again. If they haven't fulfilled their explicit promises, a refund is required.
  - dljsjr 14y ago
    I think my statement was poorly worded. "These folks" = the project people. In other words, they're obligated to refund $170k that they don't have anymore. I've edited to reflect that.
kreutz 14y ago
Context?
- Aaron138 14y ago
  Found this on google - http://www.giantbomb.com/code-hero/61-39471/code-hero-dev-takes-the-money-and-runs/35-570344/ http://www.giantbomb.com/code-hero/61-39471/code-hero-dev-ta... Not sure I get it, seems a lot of people don't understand things can fail, then people become overwhelmed and to scared or inexperienced to deal with the issue. Maybe there's more to it and the are still trying for money?
chrj 14y ago
Couldn't the backers just request a chargeback?
- tptacek 14y ago
  Probably not. There's a time limit on chargebacks, and Kickstarter is pretty explicit that when you put money into a project promising some result at a future date, you're not actually paying for a committed shipment of that product.
  - ryusage 14y ago
    Apparently Kickstarter's terms do state that project creators are legally responsible for fulfilling their pledge rewards, though. If those aren't fulfilled, then backers are entitled to refunds from the project creator (at least as far as Kickstarter is concerned). This seems to be meant to give some legal pressure on project creators without punishing them too much if their projects fail for whatever reason. It's interesting though that many projects (like this one) promise rewards that explicitly require the completion of their project, in effect making them completely liable for refunds.
    - ghaff 14y ago
      This is a great point. Leaving aside the practical issues of getting money from people who don't have it, this really raises some red flags about the Kickstarter model. Unless it's just a way of raising capital up-front for a fairly ho-hum project that basically just requires time and energy (and, even then, stuff can still happen). But Kickstarting projects of the sort that routinely fail a decent percentage of the time, like video games, looks a lot less attractive if the received funds look something more like a loan than an equity investment.
      - ryusage 14y ago
        True, but if project creators don't promise completion as part of the pledge reward, then they don't assume so much risk.
vegashacker 14y ago
I saw Alex speak at a Unity meetup in San Francisco on October 17th of this year. He demoed Code Hero, and (I thought) he said it was available for purchase. I thought he came off as passionate about the project. I wasn't convinced that this would necessarily be a good way for noobs to learn programming, but nevertheless I thought it was a pretty impressive demo. Just my 2¢. (I'm not a kickstarter backer of the project, and this is the first I've heard of these allegations.)
- nickpinkston 14y ago
  Yea, I saw him pre-Kickstarter at the Open Science Summit over a year ago. Saw a pretty cool demo and always wondered what happened to this cool project. This is a shame. He's not a "scammer" as some here are saying. He's a guy who's in over his head and probably in depressive paralysis. They say entrepreneurs are people who jump off a cliff and build a plane on the way down - this is what can happen when you hit the ground first. Just remember: bad news is ALWAYS better than no news. This was probably salvageable a few months ago, but now it seems unlikely. What other suits (other than the 3D Systems v. Kickstarter & FormLabs) is Kickstarter currently involved with?
- sjmulder 14y ago
  He was speaking at Appsterdam a week later on October 24[1]. I thought it was a very inspiring project and the live demo he talked us through looked promising. Certainly didn’t see this coming, even though apparently these concerns were already raised by then. 1: http://meetup.appsterdam.rs/events/87019552/ http://meetup.appsterdam.rs/events/87019552/
irollboozers 14y ago
I never backed this project, but I did come across the project creator and I did actually watch him and others play what seemed like a functioning version of this game. I don't know what happened or why the need for a lawsuit, but this could have some very scary implications for crowdfunding. Especially as Kickstarter is now the subject of a few lawsuits (http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/21/3d-systems-sues-3d-printer-company-formlabs-for-patent-infringement-and-kickstarter-for-promotion/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/21/3d-systems-sues-3d-printer-...). It is interesting that Kickstarter chose not step in. I really hope Kickstarter doesn't end up like EBay and Paypal, the go-to marketplace of scammers.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  this could have some very scary implications for crowdfunding One of the really interesting things about the entire kickstarter model has been how it doesn't seem so scary to people offering up a kickstarter project. I remember raising the first round of funding at a startup and how "real" it suddenly got when you had a big chunk of someone else's money and some serious expectations there. But I knew people in the dot-com days who got funded and almost immediately blew through their series A on re-designing their workspace and buying awesome chairs and video games for the cafeteria. One of those weird childhood experiences that I got while growing up in Las Vegas was seeing people suddenly come into what they consider a "lot" of money. Some folks would get meticulous and figure out how long they could make it cover their current expenses, some would spend it in lavishly stupid ways for cheap thrills. The trick is that when you're walking around the models at a car dealership and you realize you could write a check for any car they had on the lot with no haggling, you don't succumb to that. You find the place were you assume you have no money available and work out what the best value is. Easy to say, hard to do. A friend of mine from Sun cashed out his stock and asked me what he should go out and buy. I suggested he pay off his house. That would translate the money into a monthly 'benefit' in the form of one less bill to pay, and it would save him a ton over the life of the loan which seemed like a pretty reasonable rate of return. He did, and thought it was a really boring use of the windfall. Until 2001.
jaequery 14y ago
and it sure won't be the last ...
oboizt 14y ago
For many of the backers, it seems to me like that's just the risk of investing in new products/companies. If they didn't receive the promised reward for their level of contribution, that seems like a problem though.
- hahnfeld 14y ago
  Of course it's a problem. That's what happens when you create expectations that 100% of fully funded projects are going to go on to completion (leaving along the murky middle ground of completed but sucking terribly.) VC's, who are professional investors and certainly better versed than the general public on how to triage projects going sideways probably have ~5% of projects totally fail, where the product never reaches production. Kickstarter needs to manage expectations and have a solid policy on how to deal with situations like this... else, they'll be the next failure.
jgross206 14y ago
I'm curious about the two people who pledged 10,000 to this project. That seems like a pretty ridiculous amount for a game like this, even if you really do believe in the cause. Maybe the guy has a couple of reallly rich friends? I've also heard speculation that, if a project is near it's funding goal but looks like it won't quite make it, the people running it might pitch in the rest.
- ryusage 14y ago
  I've never thought about that last point, but it makes a lot of sense. If it's the difference between getting most of the money or none of it, and the creators can afford to make up the difference, then in a lot of cases it might be rational to do that. That has to have happened at some point.
  - morsch 14y ago
    Should be pretty easy to "afford" since you get the money right back... right?
    - jacalata 14y ago
      almost all of it, yes. But if, for instance, your project is something that actually requires a $50,000 expenditure, and you put in the last $5000, then you now have a commitment to deliver your $50,000 project and only $45,000 to do it with. For some people that would not be a problem at all, they have that much spare cash. For others this would mean they need to go and fundraise an extra $5000 outside of Kickstarter.
      - ryusage 14y ago
        Exactly. The other factor, obviously, is that you have to already have that $5000 and be able to part with it for a while. It doesn't matter that you get it back if you don't have it in the first place.
  - fafner 14y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if the creators are actually the first ones to "back" the project as well. Potential supporters will certainly feel more comfortable backing a project that already has some pledges.
FireBeyond 14y ago
From the guy who seems to be leading the Class Action charge: "Guys, I want to love you so badly... I met you at PAX and was worried how the exchange was going to go, considering we're so far behind schedule, updates are very insufficient, and I pledged at a high level ($313). You were very apologetic and assured me that things were going to take off right after PAX, but that is another commitment that hasn't been met. I'll be happiest if I can get my money back, but I doubt that's a possibility. I had time and energy to dive into this stuff earlier this year. Now I'm married, working different hours, and have a very different life. Lots has changed since the estimated delivery date flew by." You were funding a product that you were told may or may not meet with success. You're now going to need to show in a civil court that there was wilful recklessness in the use of funds. Kickstarter sits on the fence, too - it states that the creater is obliged to deliver pledges or refund, but that it hopes requests for refund will only be used for bad faith projects. Given that he gave a video interview in November stating he felt the project had a year to go, and that the pledges specify "Estimated Delivery" only, I think that's a hard road to plow, leaving aside the fact that a malicious, or even unlucky/ill-planned project could keep pushing out the dates. Some investments fail. Too many people view Kickstarter as an online store.
- fusiongyro 14y ago
  Well, that's the grey area, isn't it? It's one thing if I invest in something and it fails. It's another thing if someone pretends to take your money as an investment and instead goes to Vegas and blows it. In other words, the difference between merely a bad investment and fraud. Kickstarter can't afford to conflate the two, or people will stop investing. So they're in a tricky spot, trying to ensure that users understand that they aren't customers and that the startups can fail, while also ensuring that customers have faith that the vast majority of startups will succeed.
  - marshray 14y ago
    The vast majority of startups fail. It used to be said that the majority of software projects run by big stable corporations would fail, i.e., be cancelled before delivery for cost and time overruns. I don't know what Kickstarter is really trying to be exactly, but it would be probably be the wrong thing to "ensure customers have faith that the vast majority of startups will succeed".
kjackson2012 14y ago
Can they request chargebacks through their respective credit card companies? That seems like it's the easiest way to get their money back, although it's a bit old at this point.
- lwat 14y ago
  You can't do chargebacks on purchases from 10 months ago.
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brudgers 14y ago
A class action lawsuit over $200,000? This is why crowdfunding is a bad idea. Even if you are a scam artist (which I am not saying potential defendant is).
- asfdfdasfafdsss 14y ago
  I agree that $200,000 doesn't sound like a lot for a class action. The lawyer(s) would expect a lot of that.
- riazrizvi 14y ago
  A class action lawsuit is a great idea. It is clear from the comments here and on Kickstarter that this situation has been worsened by conflicting expectations. A lawsuit will help clarify what the public can expect from crowdsourcing, and for project founders it will help clarify their responsibilities.
  - _chrismccreadie 14y ago
    I would suggest that a lawsuit will help clarify what the lawyers and judges expect from crowdsourcing while completely ignoring what is best for crowdsourcing.
nostromo 14y ago
I have a hard time believing they're going to find a lawyer willing to take on a class action case over $170k in damages and a defendant that is probably broke. IANAL but you probably want to incorporate before posting on Kickstarter to protect yourself from backer lawsuits if things go south.
- georgemcbay 14y ago
  Not only that but it seems like they could fulfill a lot of the tiers of rewards pretty easily. Just release "Code Hero" in whatever its current state is. Is it just 5k of useless spaghetti code? Well, as per the standards set by the rest of the software industry, no claims were made about suitability of purpose! Enjoy your game! And then they could follow through with the minimum possible effort on the rest of the mostly vaguely worded rewards. The most problematic reward is the $42 one with 1217 backers because it promises a physical box and USB stick, but you could get those pretty cheaply, much cheaper than the $51,114 of the total that represents.
  - drizzo4shizzo 14y ago
    Release the code. The backers are the code heroes. They can fix it. That's the game.
- detst 14y ago
  you probably want to incorporate before posting on Kickstarter (IANAL) Perhaps but if someone claims you acted fraudulently, you're still going to have to defend it; and, if the claim is validated, likely offer no protection.
jtchang 14y ago
I totally wasn't aware Alex even had a kickstarter. I actually know Alex since I go by Noisebridge and saw him there a few days ago. Does Kickstarter bind you to a date to deliver a product or consider the whole thing as failed?
saurik 14y ago
I cannot say much about how Alex would have used funds, but I can speak to his passion for this project: I have known Alex Peake for many years (not very well, mind you), and even had a meeting with him back while he was still living in Santa Barbara (late 2007, I believe), regarding initial funding for his project. The main thing I could tell is that this is the thing he seemed most to want to accomplish in the world (even though I wasn't certain it would work, thought he hadn't thought through the complexities, and might not have enough experience to pull it off). In the intervening years, I have run into him at various conferences, and his interest in Code Hero has never seemed to wane: he even was making credible progress on it, and supposedly the game actually got released (although I am currently unable to find it? I'm on an iPhone, though). I also recently ran into him at Science Hack Day last year, and I was floored at how well he was interacting with the kids there, teaching them enough JavaScript and Unity3D to make a "game" (actually, just a model and some floating platforms that you could move through; I don't even think you could land on the platforms: no collision detection). I thereby highly question the validity of a malfeasance claim against him. I can appreciate that "he didn't spend the money well and the stated improvement project failed", but honestly: welcome to KickStarter... it is your responsibility to decide whether your money will be used effectively, as the entire point of the site is speculative funding.
- mnicole 14y ago
  Regardless of if he is indebted to fulfill the Kickstarter project itself, he's still required to send out the rewards. Furthermore, his lack of transparency on the issue (while continuing to give the media attention) is really what people are pissed off about. There's no excuse for that. He may very well be an incredibly passionate guy, but he's lost the trust of those who were willing to support him even if things hit the fan simply due to the lack of communication.
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    Maybe he's not ready to fulfill the rewards yet. I don't see that as a reason to file a lawsuit. I backed the kickstarter PID espresso machine project almost a year ago and have yet to see my reward. They reached their funding goal before this CodeHero fellow, so should we also file a lawsuit too?
ktrgardiner 14y ago
At the very least, I would be wary of any project which offers so many rewards for so little money. It's poor planning and poor allocation of money. And thus it reflects poorly upon the project creators. For this project you have 1217 backers at the $42 level who get a digital download, a usb drive boxed up and signed by the whole team, and a t shirt. Obviously for such little money and so much in return, this is going to be incredibly popular. So now you have to sit your entire team down to sign their name 1200 times, purchase 1200 USBs and produce 1200 tshirts. That's too much time and money wasted. And yet money is exactly what you're asking for.
- bunderbunder 14y ago
  And this, perhaps, calls to attention one of the pitfalls of the Kickstarter model. Right now there are scads and scads of project creators competing for the supply of microdonations. Their main avenue for competition is prizes for donating, so they're under a whole lot of pressure to make the prizes as generous as possible. Meanwhile, there are also scads and scads of people looking to fund projects, and they've got a natural interest to kickstart projects that have the most attractive prizes, for the price. These pressures are naturally going to encourage the difference between the amount of money being sought and the cost of the prizes to be as small as possible. And there's really not a whole lot counteracting that pressure. The business acumen of the project creator might help, only people who use Kickstarter to fund projects are almost by definition not terribly experienced in running a business. And the backers have no material interest in that regard. Since they have zero equity in the venture, they really have no intrinsic reason to care whether the project succeeds or fails, just as long as they get their prizes. All that's left as force to encourage folks to make sure there's enough money to ensure the project's success (or even give it a fighting chance) is everyone's interest in the cause for its own sake. While that's certainly worth something, the wet blanket in me can't help but muse that Polyanna isn't exactly the archetype of a successful business builder. </WildSpeculation>
  - ricardobeat 14y ago
    Prizes like t-shirts and USB sticks are not the reason people fund projects (okay, sometimes a t-shirt with the project's logo is very special). I think the excessive rewards happens mostly due to anxiousness by creators, not 'market demand'.
slovette 14y ago
This is the risk in investing, period. Kickstarter should do what it can to reduce the risk of scammers (properly screen and check into submitted projects and their founders history), but they're not in existence to be an insurance policy on consumer's bad investments. The lesson here is even in a very simplified world of investing, research and knowing before you invest is crucial. I do wish the pursuit on the side of Alex Peake success, people should ask questions and investigate how he lost all that money. I like the idea of crowd-funded & crowd-accountable.
jacquesm 14y ago
For sure some lawyers will make some money, assuming they can find one to take the case. But I'm thinking they'll need another kickstarter project to get it funded unless it is on a contingency basis. If you invest on Kickstarter do it on the assumption that you'll never see the project realized and that there will be no net benefit to you personally. Do it because you wish to back the people, not the project per-se and if it works out then be happy. This all looks like crying over spilt milk and trying to find a way to blame someone (anyone!) for the loss of little bits of money. If you can't afford the loss then DO NOT INVEST. Not in kickstarter nor anywhere else. Going in without expectations will make it a much better experience for you as well as for the people trying to realize their project. If this guy spent it 'recklessly' then you're going to have to come up with some iron-clad proof of that and by definition you've already made your case impossible because clearly you're going to have a real problem to collect. This case is a non-starter.
grannyg00se 14y ago
The average pledge is $23. Class action seems a little bit unreasonable. Especially since these are supposed to be donations. Are they not?
Nursie 14y ago
Kickstarter is neither purchase nor investment, it's a grey area. I guess the lawsuits were bound to start flying sooner or later.
rtkwe 14y ago
Is there a short explanation of what's happened? I haven't heard of all this.
grellas 14y ago
This is a drama that will play out on the web and not in a courtroom. In this sense, the crowdfunding forum gives a focal point for thousands of not only backers but also spectators to debate a continuing thumbs-up/thumbs-down narrative over whether something is great/viable/the-hope-of-the-future/flaky/scammy or whatever. By definition, such a forum will invite submissions from promoters who are, variously, supremely gifted, naive and unrealistic, crafty and conniving, or just hopeful founders who see this is their best funding mechanism, whether it turns out to be good, bad, or mediocre at it plays out. For any given project, who can tell exactly who the promoters are apart from the reputations they manage to build as they do various things in the development community or otherwise in the startup world. If they were doing a true securities offering by which they were selling equity in their ventures, they would be liable if they raised funds through intentional misrepresentations or other forms of fraud (which can include making specific promises without ever having any intention of performing them). But where is the liability when no equity is being sold and instead you have commitments that backers will receive only little perks associated with a completed development effort? There are all kinds of startup ventures that never manage to bring their development efforts to completion because of unforeseen technical issues, bad market conditions, lack of funds, and all sorts of other reasons having nothing to do with fraud or other actionable wrongdoing. If this is true where a venture sells equity interests that are true securities subject to the protections of securities laws, it is doubly true where the only thing being offered is a small perk tied to a development effort that is not guaranteed to be brought to completion or at least that is not guaranteed to be brought to completion within any specified time period. In such cases, you might conceive of cases where actionable wrongdoing might be proven, e.g., if a promoter raised the funds and immediately absconded with them, having made no effort toward development whatever. In almost every case but that extreme one, though, it is pretty hard to prove that a promoter never had any intention of making some good-faith effort to do the development, even if the promoter is flaky or uses bad business judgment in how funds are spent. In front of a jury, that one is a long shot by any measure and very likely a loser. Which brings us to the economics of a federal class action case. Only specialty lawyers handle such cases. They are procedurally complex, take years to process, and are worth doing (usually) only against defendants with deep pockets where the remedy sought is (a) damages in a sufficient sum to make the case economically worthwhile for the lawyers or (b) an injunctive or other specific performance remedy aimed at curbing some abusive, recurring practice by a large company or important player in some key market. Those conditions, by definition, do not exist here. A lawyer billing hourly would easily bill a six-figure sum in a typical class action case just to get through the class certification phase. Of course, such cases are not billed hourly precisely because the whole point of a class action is to allow the courts to aggregate a bunch of little claims to allow for a practical remedy for cases that would not be economically worthwhile to pursue separately. Thus, the class action vehicle requires that one or more "class representatives" appear in the action as named plaintiffs to represent the innumerable small claimants. But the claims of the class representatives have to be typical of the claims of the others, meaning that they are small claims as well. Because of this, no named plaintiff will be fronting hundreds of thousands in legal fees on behalf of the class and so, by definition, such cases are always done on contingency. That means that, for the lawyer, the case has to make sense as a business matter: it must involve the prospect of getting a recovery that will be large enough so that a 20% or 25% (or whatever percent) cut of such recovery will make the case attractive to the lawyer for the likely thousands of hours that will need to be poured into it (in cases where there is no money recovery, you still need defendants who, as part of a settlement, will be able to pay what is usually millions in fees to compensate the lawyers for their efforts in effecting the settlement). Of course, it is possible that a lawyer may be willing to take on the case, at substantial cost, just to get publicity or for some other non-monetary motive. That too would make little sense here. Class action lawyers are highly specialized and very busy. They will occasionally do something that is the equivalent of a loss leader but not in an area for which there is no long-term practice advantage. Since, for the reasons just mentioned, I don't see any long-term future for class action lawyers pursuing smallish claims over failed crowdfunding ventures, I can't see a lawyer doing it for that reason either. To sum up: dubious liability, no deep-pocket defendant, a very small amount at stake, no economic or other normal motive for a lawyer to do this = no ingredients for federal class action. Therefore (and conceding that I know little about the particulars here), I would imagine that the "class action preparation" here is mostly a rhetorical device by which to call out the promoter involved in this venture and, by the measure of those questioning his motives, to expose the fact that he allegedly took advantage of innocent backers in a way that went beyond the pale of what is legitimate. This may be a worthwhile debate but it will never see the light of day in a courtroom as a class action unless it defies all odds of how such cases work.
jdavid 14y ago
For everyone who is a backer and has met Alex personally, please vouch for his passion on Kickstarter. Doing it here does not help. I don't consider Alex the most experienced dev, but I do think he is one of the most passionate people I have met. He tries for the stars and often times falls short, but so did the Wright Brothers, Tesla, and Edison. Even the best of startups fail. I think the rate is like 1 in 100 that succede. I hardly think we should hold kickstarter projects to a higher standard. I have contributed over a thousand dollars to Kickstarter projects, and I don't consider any of those dollars, purchases. I consider them donations. Some projects will succede while others fail. Don't let the legal system make an example of this. Prosper is still a great company, but legal quagmires made it much less than it's original vision. I'd hate to overly regulate kickstarter.
- thefreeman 14y ago
  care to extrapolate on the legal quagmires? Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere.
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  "For everyone who is a backer and has met Alex personally, please vouch for his passion on Kickstarter. Doing it here does not help." I'd actually suggest the reverse - linking this thread to people on Kickstarter. I think a lot of people posting on Kickstarter need a little more education on what it is exactly that they're investing in.
- driverdan 14y ago
  > I don't consider Alex the most experienced dev, but I do think he is one of the most passionate people I have met. He tries for the stars and often times falls short, but so did the Wright Brothers, Tesla, and Edison. It doesn't matter if he's the most passionate person in the world. Lack of communication and failure to deliver is what matters here. > Even the best of startups fail. I think the rate is like 1 in 100 that succede. I hardly think we should hold kickstarter projects to a higher standard. If a startup receives $170k in angel funds you'd better believe the angels would expect frequent, regular updates on the progress (or lack thereof). > I have contributed over a thousand dollars to Kickstarter projects, and I don't consider any of those dollars, purchases. I consider them donations. Some projects will succede while others fail. It doesn't matter if you consider them to be donations, they're not. If a company promises to deliver items like shirts and USB drives in exchange for money they're legally obligated to follow through.
woah 14y ago
I used to live with Alex, and saw several iterations of Code Hero (originally called Primer after a book in Niel Stevenson's "The Diamond Age"). His enthusiasm for teaching kids to code, singularity stuff, etc was infectious. He was able to recruit developers very easily at Noisebridge, and various events. When I first met him, his game was very rudimentary- basically just a tree in space. That was actually pretty much it. He was able to weave such a compelling story around the project that a lot of people pitched in to help him with it. He was able to actually get some pretty high calibre people to spend a lot of time advising him and giving him contacts. At one point, he had 5-6 developers working with him to get the game ready for a YC application. He was actually able to get someone to let him use a large office for free in SOMA, while they waited for the response from YC. When the YC funding didn't come through, a lot of people were pissed at him. But honestly, nothing is certain in a startup, and they should have known that. I've personally always found his ideas very inspiring, although maybe his business sense lags behind. He really has thought out an entire dream for what he would like to build, and it is very compelling in a way. It's unfortunate that he's let his gift of gab get ahead of him. It looks like his main mistake here was not sending people their trinkets? not sure from the KS page, and I haven't talked to him in a while. Honestly, so many startups fail, and it seems like it would be pretty tough to build a full 3d game with a built in code editor on 170k. There are many many startups that have gone through way more money and not shipped.
- dbecker 14y ago
  Everyone who has interacted with Alex says he is a stand-up guy... and that counts for something. But if I took people's money to build them an X, and I failed, I would feel really bad about it. I would offer a heartfelt apology, and I would give them what I could to compensate them for my failure. Alex may have tried hard. And he probably doesn't have the money to refund to people. But he could help his case by being honest about the project, and to recognize that he failed to deliver to those who invested in him. Not only will that calm many upset investors, but it's the right thing to do.
  - woah 14y ago
    He's a good guy, but some of his practices resulted in people getting very angry at him. He definitely believes in what he's trying to do and is very good getting other people to believe as well. People coded for him for weeks and sometimes months, under the assumption that some type of funding was going to come through. When it didn't, they were less than pleased. But I'm hesitant to comment any further because I may not have the full story on anything, having never been directly involved. Like I said, he sometimes let his gift of gab get ahead of him, promising things that were not possible with the resources he had at his disposal. He's one of the most persuasive people I know, and had an easy time talking people into things. Here's a previous venture of his, which also resulted in a lot of bad blood, although he seems to have resolved it to some degree: http://blog.sinthetik.com/?tag=tacticalcorsets http://blog.sinthetik.com/?tag=tacticalcorsets
lackbeard 14y ago
So what are the actual terms of Kickstarter? I always assumed it was something more like venture capital than a loan, and if a project wasn't completed... that's that, the funders get nothing.
- dragonwriter 14y ago
  It's not. Its more like a loan (well, actually, its more like a sale: the creators are obligated to provide the rewards offered to backers or to refund any backers to whom they cannot provide the rewards.) Which, if you think about it, makes sense -- fixed rewards (the loan/sale model) come with obligations to provide the reward, equity stakes carry more risk. It wouldn't make much sense for Kickstarter to use a worst-of-both-worlds equity-like downside risk with loan-like upside reward.
freddywang 14y ago
I am afraid once a successful class action lawsuit is unleashed, many similar lawsuits will be in the rise. It will definitely stifle innovation, defeating the very purpose of kickstarter
ChrisNorstrom 14y ago
I think we're beginning to see the major disadvantages of using KickStarter and crowd-funding. "Dealing with People" Things fail by default. Look at how many companies have been started by geniuses, funded with hundreds of millions of dollars, mentioned on blogs all over the internet, and still the majority of them fail. So you can only imagine how the average person running a kickstarter feels when they can't reach their deadline. At least VCs understand the success/failure ratio. VC investors are giving, few in numbers, and understanding. Crowd funding backers are the opposite: large in numbers, a pain in the ass to deal with, and irrational. If they give you $5 so help you Jesus/Alah/Buddha they will find every reason imaginable to yell at you for spending those $5 incorrectly. (see Amanda Palmer's kickstarter backlash story)
scott_meade 14y ago
No one should ever expect that an investment will provide any specific return. Especially when it's not SEC regulated, audited, or otherwise credentialed at all. And extra-especially when the platform on which the funding is made explicitly disclaims any expectation of project completion saying "Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. Backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it."
antiterra 14y ago
I don't think failure to deliver is the biggest issue; the real problem is that he seems to have gone completely dark on his backers while apparently continuing to cheerfully update his Facebook status. I'd guess that he's somewhat overwhelmed by the situation and unable to deal with it, so he's pretending it doesn't exist. If this is the case, I hope, for his sake, he manages to face it long enough to get it out of his system. I know from experience this sort of thing can eat away at you, and that letting people know you messed up can be a huge relief.
networkjester 14y ago
A note from Alex on Primer Labs site: http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues Changed link for the actual post.
jayzalowitz 14y ago
http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues
noonespecial 14y ago
Part of the lesson here might be "don't delay the release of the originally promised project because your scope has become 'awesomer' than you originally planned. You can scope creep forever. TL;DR: Don't Duke Nukem your backers.
michaelochurch 14y ago
I don't know enough about the story here to have a strong or moralistic opinion, but from what I've read, this whole thing stinks. Kickstarter is supposed to make it easy and lightweight to raise money for projects, but if a failed project can ruin your reputation, then that money is coming with some severe strings. If he really is fraudulent, then he probably should be sued and he shouldn't get funded again, but I see a bad precedent and a chilling effect here.
stcredzero 14y ago
I met Alex personally and visited him at his apartment. He gave me a demo of Code Hero. A lot of things worked. A whole lot of things didn't work, and if I could understand if a programmer would feel embarrassed for the code to be released that way. I've also had occasion to overhear discussion about the project. From what I've seen, there was a tremendous failure of project management. From what I understand, there was no form of automated testing. There were team members who didn't work well with others, and the team's overall capability (or lack of) resulted in frequent broken builds. In short, I don't think there was any malice at work here.
lxpk 14y ago
Hello Hacker News. I'm Alex the lead developer of Code Hero and here is my response to this news story, updated as I continue to answer the specific questions people have: https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues Here's the Google Hangout where you can talk to us: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232... Here Code Hero development continues. We released the first alpha build of the game after PAX and we're releasing alpha 2 soon to show you the latest progress. https://primerlabs.com/download https://primerlabs.com/download (You do have to buy the game to play the alpha as that is how we sustain development, but you can see how the game has evolved over the last year in the trailers: http://primerlabs.com/trailer http://primerlabs.com/trailer) UPDATE: We reached Dustin Deckard by email. He said he wants the game to succeed and that his position is being misinterpreted in some media reports. He's not suing us, he's just trying to get answers about the project's progress as we hadn't replied to his email before. We're answering journalist and backer questions since posting the first response and posting them here. Our ongoing updates will be posted below as we answer people's questions as transparently and quickly as possible to make sure people are clear that the game development continues and we're going to communicate everything about its progress from now on. UPDATE: We're on a Google Hangout you can join if you want to ask us whatever you'd like. Some journalists have questions and a lot of our friends and supporters who believe in us have reached out and asked how they can help. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232... We are committed to finishing this game and although progress has slowed down and the release is taking longer than we planned, we remain dedicated to working on the project and will continue to do so because we believe in this game and we believe in making programming fun to learn. We are testing a second alpha release of the game to release soon so you can see what we've added since the first alpha. We exhibited our first alpha release at PAX and you can download it here. Some of our Kickstarter backers are frustrated with the lack of updates on progress, and Code Hero lead developer Alex Peake would like to make a personal apology: Hello backer. I owe you a thanks for your support and an apology for our lack of updates on all the progress we've made with your help. I started the Code Hero project to make a game that teaches people how to make games and you backed us to help make that happen. We are going to finish this game for you and everybody else in the world who wants to learn how to code. I believe in this mission and I'm grateful that you and so many others have believed in Code Hero too and supported us to work on this project. I worked on the idea to make a prototype for a year before asking for your help on Kickstarter, I built a team to work on it for a year since, and we are committed to finishing this game and continuing to add to it so you can make games of your own. Game development is hard and many studios and projects fail, but I can't let you down because what we're making is important. It's important to me personally to give all the people in the world a way to learn to code that is actually fun. I won't let any obstacles stop the Code Hero team from completing this. It's my life purpose to make this game because I want to see you make games of your own. Software development is hard work and we're behind schedule and solving technical challenges to add player level creation much harder than the already huge creative challenge we set ourselves to begin with. But every big project faces big challenges and we're going to figure ours out and get the game out and keep updating it and expanding it to make it grow to keep challenging the skills of our players as they learn more and more game coding skills. Many of you may not have tried the latest alpha we showed and released at PAX. I encourage you to download it and try it and see how much we've accomplished so far. The first alpha shows a world called Gamebridge Unityversity and your first mentor Ada Lovelace who guides you through the tour of the game. First you visit the Arcade you can play and post player-created games built with the world editing tools, but first you visit the Labyrinth where you learn how to edit the game's variables to beat it. Next you visit the Library where you can learn about Unityscript programming. Then you visit the Real Artist Shipyard where you're introduced to the Scenebox world editor to make and ship your first level. The tour is designed to take the player from playing an adventure game to making their own right from the outset. It isn't complete yet, but it shows what we built and we're hard at work expanding on that first release to get the new functions fully working and the new training levels fleshed out. We're testing a new second alpha release tomorrow to show what we've added since then and we're working towards a third more feature complete alpha that will be ready for general use as a complete learning tool. I know the level of frustration some people have is high right now and that it is my fault for not communicating about our ongoing progress, but I want to reassure everyone who has backed us not to panic: Code Hero is not dead and we will not let our supporters and Kickstarter backers down. All our backer rewards will be delievered along with the game. It is taking longer than we hoped, but the game is becoming awesomer than we planned too. I'll post a more detailed update soon with the new alpha build and answer any questions and concerns people may have. If you'd like to reach me, my email is alex@primerlabs.com and I'm on Google Hangouts and skype username "empowerment" and I will answer your all your questions or concerns.
camus 14y ago
This whole thing is a scam , plain and simple. I'm sorry for those who invested in that kind of product , but when you deal with real VC , the business you are investing in cannot just ignore you. You meet the executives on a regular basis , you get reports , business plans , previsions , etc ... Crowdfunding simply doesnt work if the project is just barebone. Crowd funding should be the last step of a project industralisation , not the first. There was close to no code in that project , only smoke... whoever invested in that scam , i hope you learned your lesson.
dongle 14y ago
How is it that the word 'hubris' failed to appear in any of the 177 comments?
dongle 14y ago
How is it that the word 'hubris' failed to appear in any of the 177 comments?
madrobby 14y ago
I, for one, think it's delightful that more people are getting to understand the vagaries of product development from an investment standpoint. The more people experience the pain, hopefully the less broken things will become.
niftylettuce 14y ago
Shameless plug: we handle t-shirt reward fulfillment :P https://teelaunch.com https://teelaunch.com

211 points by barredo 14y ago

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EthanHeilman 14y ago

Can anyone, in a short summary, explain what happened and why people are suing code hero?

ninjin 14y ago
I was equally confused, from what I found using Google [1] the project had a large amount of backing, was alive for a while and then everything went cold. Gradually the backers have now started turning on the project requesting refunds and now this. [1]: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121069-Code-Hero-Kickstarter-Goes-Bad http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/121069-Code-Hero-K...
elliotanderson 14y ago
From Dustin Deckard (the class suit organiser) - "Alex Peake seems to have run out of money ($170k) after spending it recklessly, and doesn't plan on continuing with this project. There are well over 1000 backers out there who pledged for physical rewards. And, tragically, 6 backers who pledged at the $1k level who thought their money would be well spent on an educational tool for schools."
- FireBeyond 14y ago
  "after spending it recklessly" I'm really curious as to how Dustin came to this conclusion - given that many people have stated the project has had multiple developers at times, and nearly a year or more of development. It's a claim with serious implications - wonder what the backing for it is?
  - veemjeem 14y ago
    It's also a false claim since CodeHero just posted an update saying that the project is continuing. Dustin was essentially lying through his teeth, because he had no evidence. He just wanted to incite a mob.
    - jff 14y ago
      You can post anything essentially for free. I can say right now, "I'm making the real Duke Nukem Forever, sorry it's taken so long but it'll be out Real Soon Now" and it doesn't cost me a goddamn thing. Hell, I can put out a press release to that effect for $50 and it'll go all over the drooling game sites. Doesn't make it true, doesn't mean I've done anything, it just means I posted an update.
      - veemjeem 14y ago
        True, but honestly what do people think is right? People investing in kickstarter project are fully aware that the project could take a year or two to complete, it's not like he can suddenly pull the project out from his ass in a day. If people are going to threaten with lawsuits less than a year from the initial backing date, why did they bother investing in the first place?
  - deleted 14y ago
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GauntletWizard 14y ago
Code hero has had a rocky past; It was an indie darling, after a cool looking demo, but along the way the creator has done all the classic scam-artist things - Gone dark for a significant amount of time, been unclear on status in updates, gave strange and only half believable excuses for lack of progress. These are all trademarks of inexperienced devs, too, which is why it's hard to prove malfeasance. There was a demo at PAX, which I saw; It looked okay, but barely more than the unity dev tools. There was something slightly off about the person I talked to at the booth, they seemed oddly desperate, but I'd put it down to it being a slow day for them. I'm glad to see this fail, actually, if it fails - It was ambitious, and would have been cool, but if it fails it's a good wake-up call that these are, in fact, attempts - Not guarantees. I feel sorry for the ~20 people who put $1k+ into this for essentially nothing, but caveat emptor.
- eli 14y ago
  I know nothing about the situation, but I would hesitate to attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by inexperience.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  > caveat emptor. Ironically, that doesn't even apply here - 'emptor' means 'buyer', but the whole point of Kickstarter is that you're not a buyer - you're a backer. Your point still stands; I just found the aphorism amusing, since the whole point is - as you said - that Kickstarter projects are attempts, not guarantees (purchases).
  - dragonwriter 14y ago
    But you are a buyer. By the terms of use of the site, you are purchasing the reward offered at the level you pledge, with a right to a full refund if the reward is not provided. The problem is that project creators are treating Kickstarter as if it were a source for speculative investment with no obligation to deliver rewards when Kickstarter's own terms make it a system for purchasing with a commit to deliver or refund.
- dtf 14y ago

dljsjr 14y ago

I originally came here to make a "Kickstarter is not a store" comment. I totally side with the backers and their ire, and if the devs really did squander the money "recklessly" as indicated then they have what's coming to them but the chorus of "I'm officially requesting a refund" was making me thinking of Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. Come to find out, from the Kickstarter ToS[1]: Kickstarter does not offer refunds. A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward. If Alex Peake really did blow through $170k and the product is in fact totally scrapped, then these folks (the Primer Labs folks) seem to be in a world of hurt, owing out a lot of money that they seemingly don't have anymore. And call me a jerk if you want, but I think this is probably the best thing that could happen to Kickstarter; a decent precedent gets set for what happens when you don't deliver on a physical product before the service gets so big that it gets totally out of hand. [1]: http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

jaequery 14y ago
to be fair, i don't think there were any evidence that Alex "recklessly" spent the money. a lot of things could've happened for his disappearance: health issue, gf problems, family problems, got lost in the mountain, etc etc
- dljsjr 14y ago
  Correct. Which is why I prefaced my observation with "if [...]". Obviously, if that isn't the case, then my point is moot.
TillE 14y ago
"unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward." Read that again. If they haven't fulfilled their explicit promises, a refund is required.
- dljsjr 14y ago
  I think my statement was poorly worded. "These folks" = the project people. In other words, they're obligated to refund $170k that they don't have anymore. I've edited to reflect that.

kreutz 14y ago

Context?

Aaron138 14y ago
Found this on google - http://www.giantbomb.com/code-hero/61-39471/code-hero-dev-takes-the-money-and-runs/35-570344/ http://www.giantbomb.com/code-hero/61-39471/code-hero-dev-ta... Not sure I get it, seems a lot of people don't understand things can fail, then people become overwhelmed and to scared or inexperienced to deal with the issue. Maybe there's more to it and the are still trying for money?

chrj 14y ago

Couldn't the backers just request a chargeback?

tptacek 14y ago
Probably not. There's a time limit on chargebacks, and Kickstarter is pretty explicit that when you put money into a project promising some result at a future date, you're not actually paying for a committed shipment of that product.
- ryusage 14y ago
  Apparently Kickstarter's terms do state that project creators are legally responsible for fulfilling their pledge rewards, though. If those aren't fulfilled, then backers are entitled to refunds from the project creator (at least as far as Kickstarter is concerned). This seems to be meant to give some legal pressure on project creators without punishing them too much if their projects fail for whatever reason. It's interesting though that many projects (like this one) promise rewards that explicitly require the completion of their project, in effect making them completely liable for refunds.
  - ghaff 14y ago
    This is a great point. Leaving aside the practical issues of getting money from people who don't have it, this really raises some red flags about the Kickstarter model. Unless it's just a way of raising capital up-front for a fairly ho-hum project that basically just requires time and energy (and, even then, stuff can still happen). But Kickstarting projects of the sort that routinely fail a decent percentage of the time, like video games, looks a lot less attractive if the received funds look something more like a loan than an equity investment.
    - ryusage 14y ago
      True, but if project creators don't promise completion as part of the pledge reward, then they don't assume so much risk.

vegashacker 14y ago

I saw Alex speak at a Unity meetup in San Francisco on October 17th of this year. He demoed Code Hero, and (I thought) he said it was available for purchase. I thought he came off as passionate about the project. I wasn't convinced that this would necessarily be a good way for noobs to learn programming, but nevertheless I thought it was a pretty impressive demo. Just my 2¢. (I'm not a kickstarter backer of the project, and this is the first I've heard of these allegations.)

nickpinkston 14y ago
Yea, I saw him pre-Kickstarter at the Open Science Summit over a year ago. Saw a pretty cool demo and always wondered what happened to this cool project. This is a shame. He's not a "scammer" as some here are saying. He's a guy who's in over his head and probably in depressive paralysis. They say entrepreneurs are people who jump off a cliff and build a plane on the way down - this is what can happen when you hit the ground first. Just remember: bad news is ALWAYS better than no news. This was probably salvageable a few months ago, but now it seems unlikely. What other suits (other than the 3D Systems v. Kickstarter & FormLabs) is Kickstarter currently involved with?
sjmulder 14y ago
He was speaking at Appsterdam a week later on October 24[1]. I thought it was a very inspiring project and the live demo he talked us through looked promising. Certainly didn’t see this coming, even though apparently these concerns were already raised by then. 1: http://meetup.appsterdam.rs/events/87019552/ http://meetup.appsterdam.rs/events/87019552/

irollboozers 14y ago

I never backed this project, but I did come across the project creator and I did actually watch him and others play what seemed like a functioning version of this game. I don't know what happened or why the need for a lawsuit, but this could have some very scary implications for crowdfunding. Especially as Kickstarter is now the subject of a few lawsuits (http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/21/3d-systems-sues-3d-printer-company-formlabs-for-patent-infringement-and-kickstarter-for-promotion/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/21/3d-systems-sues-3d-printer-...). It is interesting that Kickstarter chose not step in. I really hope Kickstarter doesn't end up like EBay and Paypal, the go-to marketplace of scammers.

ChuckMcM 14y ago
this could have some very scary implications for crowdfunding One of the really interesting things about the entire kickstarter model has been how it doesn't seem so scary to people offering up a kickstarter project. I remember raising the first round of funding at a startup and how "real" it suddenly got when you had a big chunk of someone else's money and some serious expectations there. But I knew people in the dot-com days who got funded and almost immediately blew through their series A on re-designing their workspace and buying awesome chairs and video games for the cafeteria. One of those weird childhood experiences that I got while growing up in Las Vegas was seeing people suddenly come into what they consider a "lot" of money. Some folks would get meticulous and figure out how long they could make it cover their current expenses, some would spend it in lavishly stupid ways for cheap thrills. The trick is that when you're walking around the models at a car dealership and you realize you could write a check for any car they had on the lot with no haggling, you don't succumb to that. You find the place were you assume you have no money available and work out what the best value is. Easy to say, hard to do. A friend of mine from Sun cashed out his stock and asked me what he should go out and buy. I suggested he pay off his house. That would translate the money into a monthly 'benefit' in the form of one less bill to pay, and it would save him a ton over the life of the loan which seemed like a pretty reasonable rate of return. He did, and thought it was a really boring use of the windfall. Until 2001.

jaequery 14y ago

and it sure won't be the last ...

oboizt 14y ago

For many of the backers, it seems to me like that's just the risk of investing in new products/companies. If they didn't receive the promised reward for their level of contribution, that seems like a problem though.

hahnfeld 14y ago
Of course it's a problem. That's what happens when you create expectations that 100% of fully funded projects are going to go on to completion (leaving along the murky middle ground of completed but sucking terribly.) VC's, who are professional investors and certainly better versed than the general public on how to triage projects going sideways probably have ~5% of projects totally fail, where the product never reaches production. Kickstarter needs to manage expectations and have a solid policy on how to deal with situations like this... else, they'll be the next failure.

jgross206 14y ago

I'm curious about the two people who pledged 10,000 to this project. That seems like a pretty ridiculous amount for a game like this, even if you really do believe in the cause. Maybe the guy has a couple of reallly rich friends? I've also heard speculation that, if a project is near it's funding goal but looks like it won't quite make it, the people running it might pitch in the rest.

ryusage 14y ago
I've never thought about that last point, but it makes a lot of sense. If it's the difference between getting most of the money or none of it, and the creators can afford to make up the difference, then in a lot of cases it might be rational to do that. That has to have happened at some point.
- morsch 14y ago
  Should be pretty easy to "afford" since you get the money right back... right?
  - jacalata 14y ago
    almost all of it, yes. But if, for instance, your project is something that actually requires a $50,000 expenditure, and you put in the last $5000, then you now have a commitment to deliver your $50,000 project and only $45,000 to do it with. For some people that would not be a problem at all, they have that much spare cash. For others this would mean they need to go and fundraise an extra $5000 outside of Kickstarter.
    - ryusage 14y ago
      Exactly. The other factor, obviously, is that you have to already have that $5000 and be able to part with it for a while. It doesn't matter that you get it back if you don't have it in the first place.
- fafner 14y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if the creators are actually the first ones to "back" the project as well. Potential supporters will certainly feel more comfortable backing a project that already has some pledges.

FireBeyond 14y ago

From the guy who seems to be leading the Class Action charge: "Guys, I want to love you so badly... I met you at PAX and was worried how the exchange was going to go, considering we're so far behind schedule, updates are very insufficient, and I pledged at a high level ($313). You were very apologetic and assured me that things were going to take off right after PAX, but that is another commitment that hasn't been met. I'll be happiest if I can get my money back, but I doubt that's a possibility. I had time and energy to dive into this stuff earlier this year. Now I'm married, working different hours, and have a very different life. Lots has changed since the estimated delivery date flew by." You were funding a product that you were told may or may not meet with success. You're now going to need to show in a civil court that there was wilful recklessness in the use of funds. Kickstarter sits on the fence, too - it states that the creater is obliged to deliver pledges or refund, but that it hopes requests for refund will only be used for bad faith projects. Given that he gave a video interview in November stating he felt the project had a year to go, and that the pledges specify "Estimated Delivery" only, I think that's a hard road to plow, leaving aside the fact that a malicious, or even unlucky/ill-planned project could keep pushing out the dates. Some investments fail. Too many people view Kickstarter as an online store.

fusiongyro 14y ago
Well, that's the grey area, isn't it? It's one thing if I invest in something and it fails. It's another thing if someone pretends to take your money as an investment and instead goes to Vegas and blows it. In other words, the difference between merely a bad investment and fraud. Kickstarter can't afford to conflate the two, or people will stop investing. So they're in a tricky spot, trying to ensure that users understand that they aren't customers and that the startups can fail, while also ensuring that customers have faith that the vast majority of startups will succeed.
- marshray 14y ago
  The vast majority of startups fail. It used to be said that the majority of software projects run by big stable corporations would fail, i.e., be cancelled before delivery for cost and time overruns. I don't know what Kickstarter is really trying to be exactly, but it would be probably be the wrong thing to "ensure customers have faith that the vast majority of startups will succeed".

kjackson2012 14y ago

Can they request chargebacks through their respective credit card companies? That seems like it's the easiest way to get their money back, although it's a bit old at this point.

lwat 14y ago
You can't do chargebacks on purchases from 10 months ago.

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brudgers 14y ago

A class action lawsuit over $200,000? This is why crowdfunding is a bad idea. Even if you are a scam artist (which I am not saying potential defendant is).

asfdfdasfafdsss 14y ago
I agree that $200,000 doesn't sound like a lot for a class action. The lawyer(s) would expect a lot of that.
riazrizvi 14y ago
A class action lawsuit is a great idea. It is clear from the comments here and on Kickstarter that this situation has been worsened by conflicting expectations. A lawsuit will help clarify what the public can expect from crowdsourcing, and for project founders it will help clarify their responsibilities.
- _chrismccreadie 14y ago
  I would suggest that a lawsuit will help clarify what the lawyers and judges expect from crowdsourcing while completely ignoring what is best for crowdsourcing.

nostromo 14y ago

I have a hard time believing they're going to find a lawyer willing to take on a class action case over $170k in damages and a defendant that is probably broke. IANAL but you probably want to incorporate before posting on Kickstarter to protect yourself from backer lawsuits if things go south.

georgemcbay 14y ago
Not only that but it seems like they could fulfill a lot of the tiers of rewards pretty easily. Just release "Code Hero" in whatever its current state is. Is it just 5k of useless spaghetti code? Well, as per the standards set by the rest of the software industry, no claims were made about suitability of purpose! Enjoy your game! And then they could follow through with the minimum possible effort on the rest of the mostly vaguely worded rewards. The most problematic reward is the $42 one with 1217 backers because it promises a physical box and USB stick, but you could get those pretty cheaply, much cheaper than the $51,114 of the total that represents.
- drizzo4shizzo 14y ago
  Release the code. The backers are the code heroes. They can fix it. That's the game.
detst 14y ago
you probably want to incorporate before posting on Kickstarter (IANAL) Perhaps but if someone claims you acted fraudulently, you're still going to have to defend it; and, if the claim is validated, likely offer no protection.

jtchang 14y ago

I totally wasn't aware Alex even had a kickstarter. I actually know Alex since I go by Noisebridge and saw him there a few days ago. Does Kickstarter bind you to a date to deliver a product or consider the whole thing as failed?

saurik 14y ago

I cannot say much about how Alex would have used funds, but I can speak to his passion for this project: I have known Alex Peake for many years (not very well, mind you), and even had a meeting with him back while he was still living in Santa Barbara (late 2007, I believe), regarding initial funding for his project. The main thing I could tell is that this is the thing he seemed most to want to accomplish in the world (even though I wasn't certain it would work, thought he hadn't thought through the complexities, and might not have enough experience to pull it off). In the intervening years, I have run into him at various conferences, and his interest in Code Hero has never seemed to wane: he even was making credible progress on it, and supposedly the game actually got released (although I am currently unable to find it? I'm on an iPhone, though). I also recently ran into him at Science Hack Day last year, and I was floored at how well he was interacting with the kids there, teaching them enough JavaScript and Unity3D to make a "game" (actually, just a model and some floating platforms that you could move through; I don't even think you could land on the platforms: no collision detection). I thereby highly question the validity of a malfeasance claim against him. I can appreciate that "he didn't spend the money well and the stated improvement project failed", but honestly: welcome to KickStarter... it is your responsibility to decide whether your money will be used effectively, as the entire point of the site is speculative funding.

mnicole 14y ago
Regardless of if he is indebted to fulfill the Kickstarter project itself, he's still required to send out the rewards. Furthermore, his lack of transparency on the issue (while continuing to give the media attention) is really what people are pissed off about. There's no excuse for that. He may very well be an incredibly passionate guy, but he's lost the trust of those who were willing to support him even if things hit the fan simply due to the lack of communication.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  Maybe he's not ready to fulfill the rewards yet. I don't see that as a reason to file a lawsuit. I backed the kickstarter PID espresso machine project almost a year ago and have yet to see my reward. They reached their funding goal before this CodeHero fellow, so should we also file a lawsuit too?

ktrgardiner 14y ago

At the very least, I would be wary of any project which offers so many rewards for so little money. It's poor planning and poor allocation of money. And thus it reflects poorly upon the project creators. For this project you have 1217 backers at the $42 level who get a digital download, a usb drive boxed up and signed by the whole team, and a t shirt. Obviously for such little money and so much in return, this is going to be incredibly popular. So now you have to sit your entire team down to sign their name 1200 times, purchase 1200 USBs and produce 1200 tshirts. That's too much time and money wasted. And yet money is exactly what you're asking for.

bunderbunder 14y ago
And this, perhaps, calls to attention one of the pitfalls of the Kickstarter model. Right now there are scads and scads of project creators competing for the supply of microdonations. Their main avenue for competition is prizes for donating, so they're under a whole lot of pressure to make the prizes as generous as possible. Meanwhile, there are also scads and scads of people looking to fund projects, and they've got a natural interest to kickstart projects that have the most attractive prizes, for the price. These pressures are naturally going to encourage the difference between the amount of money being sought and the cost of the prizes to be as small as possible. And there's really not a whole lot counteracting that pressure. The business acumen of the project creator might help, only people who use Kickstarter to fund projects are almost by definition not terribly experienced in running a business. And the backers have no material interest in that regard. Since they have zero equity in the venture, they really have no intrinsic reason to care whether the project succeeds or fails, just as long as they get their prizes. All that's left as force to encourage folks to make sure there's enough money to ensure the project's success (or even give it a fighting chance) is everyone's interest in the cause for its own sake. While that's certainly worth something, the wet blanket in me can't help but muse that Polyanna isn't exactly the archetype of a successful business builder. </WildSpeculation>
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  Prizes like t-shirts and USB sticks are not the reason people fund projects (okay, sometimes a t-shirt with the project's logo is very special). I think the excessive rewards happens mostly due to anxiousness by creators, not 'market demand'.

slovette 14y ago

This is the risk in investing, period. Kickstarter should do what it can to reduce the risk of scammers (properly screen and check into submitted projects and their founders history), but they're not in existence to be an insurance policy on consumer's bad investments. The lesson here is even in a very simplified world of investing, research and knowing before you invest is crucial. I do wish the pursuit on the side of Alex Peake success, people should ask questions and investigate how he lost all that money. I like the idea of crowd-funded & crowd-accountable.

jacquesm 14y ago

For sure some lawyers will make some money, assuming they can find one to take the case. But I'm thinking they'll need another kickstarter project to get it funded unless it is on a contingency basis. If you invest on Kickstarter do it on the assumption that you'll never see the project realized and that there will be no net benefit to you personally. Do it because you wish to back the people, not the project per-se and if it works out then be happy. This all looks like crying over spilt milk and trying to find a way to blame someone (anyone!) for the loss of little bits of money. If you can't afford the loss then DO NOT INVEST. Not in kickstarter nor anywhere else. Going in without expectations will make it a much better experience for you as well as for the people trying to realize their project. If this guy spent it 'recklessly' then you're going to have to come up with some iron-clad proof of that and by definition you've already made your case impossible because clearly you're going to have a real problem to collect. This case is a non-starter.

grannyg00se 14y ago

The average pledge is $23. Class action seems a little bit unreasonable. Especially since these are supposed to be donations. Are they not?

Nursie 14y ago

Kickstarter is neither purchase nor investment, it's a grey area. I guess the lawsuits were bound to start flying sooner or later.

rtkwe 14y ago

Is there a short explanation of what's happened? I haven't heard of all this.

grellas 14y ago

This is a drama that will play out on the web and not in a courtroom. In this sense, the crowdfunding forum gives a focal point for thousands of not only backers but also spectators to debate a continuing thumbs-up/thumbs-down narrative over whether something is great/viable/the-hope-of-the-future/flaky/scammy or whatever. By definition, such a forum will invite submissions from promoters who are, variously, supremely gifted, naive and unrealistic, crafty and conniving, or just hopeful founders who see this is their best funding mechanism, whether it turns out to be good, bad, or mediocre at it plays out. For any given project, who can tell exactly who the promoters are apart from the reputations they manage to build as they do various things in the development community or otherwise in the startup world. If they were doing a true securities offering by which they were selling equity in their ventures, they would be liable if they raised funds through intentional misrepresentations or other forms of fraud (which can include making specific promises without ever having any intention of performing them). But where is the liability when no equity is being sold and instead you have commitments that backers will receive only little perks associated with a completed development effort? There are all kinds of startup ventures that never manage to bring their development efforts to completion because of unforeseen technical issues, bad market conditions, lack of funds, and all sorts of other reasons having nothing to do with fraud or other actionable wrongdoing. If this is true where a venture sells equity interests that are true securities subject to the protections of securities laws, it is doubly true where the only thing being offered is a small perk tied to a development effort that is not guaranteed to be brought to completion or at least that is not guaranteed to be brought to completion within any specified time period. In such cases, you might conceive of cases where actionable wrongdoing might be proven, e.g., if a promoter raised the funds and immediately absconded with them, having made no effort toward development whatever. In almost every case but that extreme one, though, it is pretty hard to prove that a promoter never had any intention of making some good-faith effort to do the development, even if the promoter is flaky or uses bad business judgment in how funds are spent. In front of a jury, that one is a long shot by any measure and very likely a loser. Which brings us to the economics of a federal class action case. Only specialty lawyers handle such cases. They are procedurally complex, take years to process, and are worth doing (usually) only against defendants with deep pockets where the remedy sought is (a) damages in a sufficient sum to make the case economically worthwhile for the lawyers or (b) an injunctive or other specific performance remedy aimed at curbing some abusive, recurring practice by a large company or important player in some key market. Those conditions, by definition, do not exist here. A lawyer billing hourly would easily bill a six-figure sum in a typical class action case just to get through the class certification phase. Of course, such cases are not billed hourly precisely because the whole point of a class action is to allow the courts to aggregate a bunch of little claims to allow for a practical remedy for cases that would not be economically worthwhile to pursue separately. Thus, the class action vehicle requires that one or more "class representatives" appear in the action as named plaintiffs to represent the innumerable small claimants. But the claims of the class representatives have to be typical of the claims of the others, meaning that they are small claims as well. Because of this, no named plaintiff will be fronting hundreds of thousands in legal fees on behalf of the class and so, by definition, such cases are always done on contingency. That means that, for the lawyer, the case has to make sense as a business matter: it must involve the prospect of getting a recovery that will be large enough so that a 20% or 25% (or whatever percent) cut of such recovery will make the case attractive to the lawyer for the likely thousands of hours that will need to be poured into it (in cases where there is no money recovery, you still need defendants who, as part of a settlement, will be able to pay what is usually millions in fees to compensate the lawyers for their efforts in effecting the settlement). Of course, it is possible that a lawyer may be willing to take on the case, at substantial cost, just to get publicity or for some other non-monetary motive. That too would make little sense here. Class action lawyers are highly specialized and very busy. They will occasionally do something that is the equivalent of a loss leader but not in an area for which there is no long-term practice advantage. Since, for the reasons just mentioned, I don't see any long-term future for class action lawyers pursuing smallish claims over failed crowdfunding ventures, I can't see a lawyer doing it for that reason either. To sum up: dubious liability, no deep-pocket defendant, a very small amount at stake, no economic or other normal motive for a lawyer to do this = no ingredients for federal class action. Therefore (and conceding that I know little about the particulars here), I would imagine that the "class action preparation" here is mostly a rhetorical device by which to call out the promoter involved in this venture and, by the measure of those questioning his motives, to expose the fact that he allegedly took advantage of innocent backers in a way that went beyond the pale of what is legitimate. This may be a worthwhile debate but it will never see the light of day in a courtroom as a class action unless it defies all odds of how such cases work.

jdavid 14y ago

For everyone who is a backer and has met Alex personally, please vouch for his passion on Kickstarter. Doing it here does not help. I don't consider Alex the most experienced dev, but I do think he is one of the most passionate people I have met. He tries for the stars and often times falls short, but so did the Wright Brothers, Tesla, and Edison. Even the best of startups fail. I think the rate is like 1 in 100 that succede. I hardly think we should hold kickstarter projects to a higher standard. I have contributed over a thousand dollars to Kickstarter projects, and I don't consider any of those dollars, purchases. I consider them donations. Some projects will succede while others fail. Don't let the legal system make an example of this. Prosper is still a great company, but legal quagmires made it much less than it's original vision. I'd hate to overly regulate kickstarter.

thefreeman 14y ago
care to extrapolate on the legal quagmires? Haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere.
FireBeyond 14y ago
"For everyone who is a backer and has met Alex personally, please vouch for his passion on Kickstarter. Doing it here does not help." I'd actually suggest the reverse - linking this thread to people on Kickstarter. I think a lot of people posting on Kickstarter need a little more education on what it is exactly that they're investing in.
driverdan 14y ago
> I don't consider Alex the most experienced dev, but I do think he is one of the most passionate people I have met. He tries for the stars and often times falls short, but so did the Wright Brothers, Tesla, and Edison. It doesn't matter if he's the most passionate person in the world. Lack of communication and failure to deliver is what matters here. > Even the best of startups fail. I think the rate is like 1 in 100 that succede. I hardly think we should hold kickstarter projects to a higher standard. If a startup receives $170k in angel funds you'd better believe the angels would expect frequent, regular updates on the progress (or lack thereof). > I have contributed over a thousand dollars to Kickstarter projects, and I don't consider any of those dollars, purchases. I consider them donations. Some projects will succede while others fail. It doesn't matter if you consider them to be donations, they're not. If a company promises to deliver items like shirts and USB drives in exchange for money they're legally obligated to follow through.

woah 14y ago

I used to live with Alex, and saw several iterations of Code Hero (originally called Primer after a book in Niel Stevenson's "The Diamond Age"). His enthusiasm for teaching kids to code, singularity stuff, etc was infectious. He was able to recruit developers very easily at Noisebridge, and various events. When I first met him, his game was very rudimentary- basically just a tree in space. That was actually pretty much it. He was able to weave such a compelling story around the project that a lot of people pitched in to help him with it. He was able to actually get some pretty high calibre people to spend a lot of time advising him and giving him contacts. At one point, he had 5-6 developers working with him to get the game ready for a YC application. He was actually able to get someone to let him use a large office for free in SOMA, while they waited for the response from YC. When the YC funding didn't come through, a lot of people were pissed at him. But honestly, nothing is certain in a startup, and they should have known that. I've personally always found his ideas very inspiring, although maybe his business sense lags behind. He really has thought out an entire dream for what he would like to build, and it is very compelling in a way. It's unfortunate that he's let his gift of gab get ahead of him. It looks like his main mistake here was not sending people their trinkets? not sure from the KS page, and I haven't talked to him in a while. Honestly, so many startups fail, and it seems like it would be pretty tough to build a full 3d game with a built in code editor on 170k. There are many many startups that have gone through way more money and not shipped.

dbecker 14y ago
Everyone who has interacted with Alex says he is a stand-up guy... and that counts for something. But if I took people's money to build them an X, and I failed, I would feel really bad about it. I would offer a heartfelt apology, and I would give them what I could to compensate them for my failure. Alex may have tried hard. And he probably doesn't have the money to refund to people. But he could help his case by being honest about the project, and to recognize that he failed to deliver to those who invested in him. Not only will that calm many upset investors, but it's the right thing to do.
- woah 14y ago
  He's a good guy, but some of his practices resulted in people getting very angry at him. He definitely believes in what he's trying to do and is very good getting other people to believe as well. People coded for him for weeks and sometimes months, under the assumption that some type of funding was going to come through. When it didn't, they were less than pleased. But I'm hesitant to comment any further because I may not have the full story on anything, having never been directly involved. Like I said, he sometimes let his gift of gab get ahead of him, promising things that were not possible with the resources he had at his disposal. He's one of the most persuasive people I know, and had an easy time talking people into things. Here's a previous venture of his, which also resulted in a lot of bad blood, although he seems to have resolved it to some degree: http://blog.sinthetik.com/?tag=tacticalcorsets http://blog.sinthetik.com/?tag=tacticalcorsets

lackbeard 14y ago

So what are the actual terms of Kickstarter? I always assumed it was something more like venture capital than a loan, and if a project wasn't completed... that's that, the funders get nothing.

dragonwriter 14y ago
It's not. Its more like a loan (well, actually, its more like a sale: the creators are obligated to provide the rewards offered to backers or to refund any backers to whom they cannot provide the rewards.) Which, if you think about it, makes sense -- fixed rewards (the loan/sale model) come with obligations to provide the reward, equity stakes carry more risk. It wouldn't make much sense for Kickstarter to use a worst-of-both-worlds equity-like downside risk with loan-like upside reward.

freddywang 14y ago

I am afraid once a successful class action lawsuit is unleashed, many similar lawsuits will be in the rise. It will definitely stifle innovation, defeating the very purpose of kickstarter

ChrisNorstrom 14y ago

I think we're beginning to see the major disadvantages of using KickStarter and crowd-funding. "Dealing with People" Things fail by default. Look at how many companies have been started by geniuses, funded with hundreds of millions of dollars, mentioned on blogs all over the internet, and still the majority of them fail. So you can only imagine how the average person running a kickstarter feels when they can't reach their deadline. At least VCs understand the success/failure ratio. VC investors are giving, few in numbers, and understanding. Crowd funding backers are the opposite: large in numbers, a pain in the ass to deal with, and irrational. If they give you $5 so help you Jesus/Alah/Buddha they will find every reason imaginable to yell at you for spending those $5 incorrectly. (see Amanda Palmer's kickstarter backlash story)

scott_meade 14y ago

No one should ever expect that an investment will provide any specific return. Especially when it's not SEC regulated, audited, or otherwise credentialed at all. And extra-especially when the platform on which the funding is made explicitly disclaims any expectation of project completion saying "Kickstarter does not investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. Backers ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it."

antiterra 14y ago

I don't think failure to deliver is the biggest issue; the real problem is that he seems to have gone completely dark on his backers while apparently continuing to cheerfully update his Facebook status. I'd guess that he's somewhat overwhelmed by the situation and unable to deal with it, so he's pretending it doesn't exist. If this is the case, I hope, for his sake, he manages to face it long enough to get it out of his system. I know from experience this sort of thing can eat away at you, and that letting people know you messed up can be a huge relief.

networkjester 14y ago

A note from Alex on Primer Labs site: http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues Changed link for the actual post.

jayzalowitz 14y ago

http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues http://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues

noonespecial 14y ago

Part of the lesson here might be "don't delay the release of the originally promised project because your scope has become 'awesomer' than you originally planned. You can scope creep forever. TL;DR: Don't Duke Nukem your backers.

michaelochurch 14y ago

I don't know enough about the story here to have a strong or moralistic opinion, but from what I've read, this whole thing stinks. Kickstarter is supposed to make it easy and lightweight to raise money for projects, but if a failed project can ruin your reputation, then that money is coming with some severe strings. If he really is fraudulent, then he probably should be sued and he shouldn't get funded again, but I see a bad precedent and a chilling effect here.

stcredzero 14y ago

I met Alex personally and visited him at his apartment. He gave me a demo of Code Hero. A lot of things worked. A whole lot of things didn't work, and if I could understand if a programmer would feel embarrassed for the code to be released that way. I've also had occasion to overhear discussion about the project. From what I've seen, there was a tremendous failure of project management. From what I understand, there was no form of automated testing. There were team members who didn't work well with others, and the team's overall capability (or lack of) resulted in frequent broken builds. In short, I don't think there was any malice at work here.

lxpk 14y ago

Hello Hacker News. I'm Alex the lead developer of Code Hero and here is my response to this news story, updated as I continue to answer the specific questions people have: https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues https://primerlabs.com/developmentcontinues Here's the Google Hangout where you can talk to us: https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232... Here Code Hero development continues. We released the first alpha build of the game after PAX and we're releasing alpha 2 soon to show you the latest progress. https://primerlabs.com/download https://primerlabs.com/download (You do have to buy the game to play the alpha as that is how we sustain development, but you can see how the game has evolved over the last year in the trailers: http://primerlabs.com/trailer http://primerlabs.com/trailer) UPDATE: We reached Dustin Deckard by email. He said he wants the game to succeed and that his position is being misinterpreted in some media reports. He's not suing us, he's just trying to get answers about the project's progress as we hadn't replied to his email before. We're answering journalist and backer questions since posting the first response and posting them here. Our ongoing updates will be posted below as we answer people's questions as transparently and quickly as possible to make sure people are clear that the game development continues and we're going to communicate everything about its progress from now on. UPDATE: We're on a Google Hangout you can join if you want to ask us whatever you'd like. Some journalists have questions and a lot of our friends and supporters who believe in us have reached out and asked how they can help. https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232cf91282f361e6b3?authuser=0&hl=en-US https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f0778f953e6506ccb5e95232... We are committed to finishing this game and although progress has slowed down and the release is taking longer than we planned, we remain dedicated to working on the project and will continue to do so because we believe in this game and we believe in making programming fun to learn. We are testing a second alpha release of the game to release soon so you can see what we've added since the first alpha. We exhibited our first alpha release at PAX and you can download it here. Some of our Kickstarter backers are frustrated with the lack of updates on progress, and Code Hero lead developer Alex Peake would like to make a personal apology: Hello backer. I owe you a thanks for your support and an apology for our lack of updates on all the progress we've made with your help. I started the Code Hero project to make a game that teaches people how to make games and you backed us to help make that happen. We are going to finish this game for you and everybody else in the world who wants to learn how to code. I believe in this mission and I'm grateful that you and so many others have believed in Code Hero too and supported us to work on this project. I worked on the idea to make a prototype for a year before asking for your help on Kickstarter, I built a team to work on it for a year since, and we are committed to finishing this game and continuing to add to it so you can make games of your own. Game development is hard and many studios and projects fail, but I can't let you down because what we're making is important. It's important to me personally to give all the people in the world a way to learn to code that is actually fun. I won't let any obstacles stop the Code Hero team from completing this. It's my life purpose to make this game because I want to see you make games of your own. Software development is hard work and we're behind schedule and solving technical challenges to add player level creation much harder than the already huge creative challenge we set ourselves to begin with. But every big project faces big challenges and we're going to figure ours out and get the game out and keep updating it and expanding it to make it grow to keep challenging the skills of our players as they learn more and more game coding skills. Many of you may not have tried the latest alpha we showed and released at PAX. I encourage you to download it and try it and see how much we've accomplished so far. The first alpha shows a world called Gamebridge Unityversity and your first mentor Ada Lovelace who guides you through the tour of the game. First you visit the Arcade you can play and post player-created games built with the world editing tools, but first you visit the Labyrinth where you learn how to edit the game's variables to beat it. Next you visit the Library where you can learn about Unityscript programming. Then you visit the Real Artist Shipyard where you're introduced to the Scenebox world editor to make and ship your first level. The tour is designed to take the player from playing an adventure game to making their own right from the outset. It isn't complete yet, but it shows what we built and we're hard at work expanding on that first release to get the new functions fully working and the new training levels fleshed out. We're testing a new second alpha release tomorrow to show what we've added since then and we're working towards a third more feature complete alpha that will be ready for general use as a complete learning tool. I know the level of frustration some people have is high right now and that it is my fault for not communicating about our ongoing progress, but I want to reassure everyone who has backed us not to panic: Code Hero is not dead and we will not let our supporters and Kickstarter backers down. All our backer rewards will be delievered along with the game. It is taking longer than we hoped, but the game is becoming awesomer than we planned too. I'll post a more detailed update soon with the new alpha build and answer any questions and concerns people may have. If you'd like to reach me, my email is alex@primerlabs.com and I'm on Google Hangouts and skype username "empowerment" and I will answer your all your questions or concerns.

camus 14y ago

This whole thing is a scam , plain and simple. I'm sorry for those who invested in that kind of product , but when you deal with real VC , the business you are investing in cannot just ignore you. You meet the executives on a regular basis , you get reports , business plans , previsions , etc ... Crowdfunding simply doesnt work if the project is just barebone. Crowd funding should be the last step of a project industralisation , not the first. There was close to no code in that project , only smoke... whoever invested in that scam , i hope you learned your lesson.

dongle 14y ago

How is it that the word 'hubris' failed to appear in any of the 177 comments?

dongle 14y ago

How is it that the word 'hubris' failed to appear in any of the 177 comments?

madrobby 14y ago

I, for one, think it's delightful that more people are getting to understand the vagaries of product development from an investment standpoint. The more people experience the pain, hopefully the less broken things will become.

niftylettuce 14y ago

Shameless plug: we handle t-shirt reward fulfillment :P https://teelaunch.com https://teelaunch.com