7 ms·

I think you are saying "an NGO probably has an agenda." Ok, sure, they are not robots with no opinions, and if you read even the first few sentences of that re

I think you are saying "an NGO probably has an agenda." Ok, sure, they are not robots with no opinions, and if you read even the first few sentences of that report you can see the opinion. But if you are suggesting that this NGO is carrying water for some unspecified shadowy group that is pulling the strings, you'll need to provide some backing for that. Who has a nefarious motivation to oppose junk food? Trial lawyers? Misguided do-gooders? Big Celery?

Cpoll 3mo ago
> motivation to oppose junk food. On social media, making dubious claims about food science or food ingredients, then following up by selling some "clean, unprocessed, organic" product is big business. (I make no claims about this specific NGO).
- shimman 3mo ago
  So you're upset about something that hasn't happened yet?
  - QuantumFunnel 3mo ago
    [dead]
- munk-a 3mo ago
  Yes - the obvious state of dysfunction in food regulation and lack of enforcement in that area has led to an abundance of scam supplement hawkers[1] but I don't think the right conclusion to draw from that is that all criticisms of food regulation are in bad faith - I think it's very fair to say "We should have a serious discussion about our food quality and also we need to crack down on these BS supplements". I think we're all[2] pretty well aligned on the fact that the BS supplements need the crack down but we also should introspect on why so many people are motivated to seek things like that out. 1. I personally enjoy a can of hogwater every day and am happy to give you a referral code. 2. Except those who financially benefit from hawking snake oil, of course.
- dylan604 3mo ago
  astroturfing works, and is only getting better/worse depending on your point of view. it used to require people to read forums and make posts manually. now, you can automate that with a bot and in multiple languages.
  - mmooss 3mo ago
    What are you calling astroturfing? If anything, it would be the comment upthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49127343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49127343
    - dylan604 3mo ago
      "On social media, making dubious claims about food science or food ingredients, then following up by selling some "
  - DrewADesign 3mo ago
    It’s only bad if you value the pittance of social trust people occasionally still afford each other. That’s definitely not as cool as another vacation home and a shiny new gofast boat for some of the few thousand people in this country that actually benefit from this sort of large-scale manipulation.
  - verisimi 3mo ago
    > astroturfing works, and is only getting better/worse Perhaps one would say 'increasing' or 'decreasing'?
Forgeties79 3mo ago
Unfortunately in the current political climate “NGO” is just a hop and a step away from saying “the deep state” for some people. They vaguely gesture to it and talk about it as if it’s a bogeyman. Not saying they are specifically doing that, but I can’t confidently say they aren’t either
throwawayffffas 3mo ago
It's not they are not robots with no opinions. The agenda is the reason the organisation exists. NGOs exist to push agendas. If you are on the other side of an agenda it's always "outrageous" the government is funding them of course. I do not know who is pushing but if you think there is not an entire industry of "healthy" alternatives for the companies in the article, you are very much mistaken. Hell it might be the artificial sweetener industry, in the UK it's now practically impossible to buy a soda that is not full of artificial sweeteners, excluding regular coca cola, and regular red bull.
- mcmcmc 3mo ago
  Not all NGOs. Some are actually mission focused and spend their money and effort on direct action instead of policy or advocacy. Do you really think the purpose of Doctors Without Borders is to push an agenda? No. They provide care to those who would otherwise receive none, who would suffer and die from poverty as much as illness.
  - AlotOfReading 3mo ago
    Unfortunately, there are actually people who believe that DWB's purpose is political. Here's an example from the Times of Israel [0]. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/doctors-without-borders-and-the-collapse-of-medical-neutrality/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/doctors-without-borders-and-th...
    - Pay08 3mo ago
      The article doesn't back up your comment.
      - AlotOfReading 3mo ago
        I'm not sure how you can read the article and think it isn't arguing MSF/DWB is political. A few quotes: Hamas operatives in Gaza hospitals, failure to screen out terrorists, and politicized leadership erode the Nobel Prize-winning aid group’s claim to neutrality While continuing to invoke the language of medical neutrality, its rhetoric has become overtly politicized, most notably in its discourse on Israel. From medical neutrality to political advocacy This ideological position has also been reinforced at the highest level of MSF’s international leadership. That silence leaves the international community to ask whether MSF is advocating for Palestinians or functioning as a humanitarian façade through which terror is laundered by the moral authority of humanitarian medicine.
verisimi 3mo ago
If you think any human endeavour, especially those that relate to handling of money, is without an agenda, I think you'd be wrong. If you also throw in the fact that this money is not taxed, you increase nefarious incentives. And that money can be given without needing to show the names publicly, this doesn't increase comfort. Finally, even if robots were to run these operations, someone would have to code them and own them, right?
overtone1000 3mo ago
Up vote for Big Celery.

Cpoll 3mo ago

> motivation to oppose junk food. On social media, making dubious claims about food science or food ingredients, then following up by selling some "clean, unprocessed, organic" product is big business. (I make no claims about this specific NGO).

shimman 3mo ago
So you're upset about something that hasn't happened yet?
- QuantumFunnel 3mo ago
  [dead]
munk-a 3mo ago
Yes - the obvious state of dysfunction in food regulation and lack of enforcement in that area has led to an abundance of scam supplement hawkers[1] but I don't think the right conclusion to draw from that is that all criticisms of food regulation are in bad faith - I think it's very fair to say "We should have a serious discussion about our food quality and also we need to crack down on these BS supplements". I think we're all[2] pretty well aligned on the fact that the BS supplements need the crack down but we also should introspect on why so many people are motivated to seek things like that out. 1. I personally enjoy a can of hogwater every day and am happy to give you a referral code. 2. Except those who financially benefit from hawking snake oil, of course.
dylan604 3mo ago
astroturfing works, and is only getting better/worse depending on your point of view. it used to require people to read forums and make posts manually. now, you can automate that with a bot and in multiple languages.
- mmooss 3mo ago
  What are you calling astroturfing? If anything, it would be the comment upthread. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49127343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49127343
  - dylan604 3mo ago
    "On social media, making dubious claims about food science or food ingredients, then following up by selling some "
- DrewADesign 3mo ago
  It’s only bad if you value the pittance of social trust people occasionally still afford each other. That’s definitely not as cool as another vacation home and a shiny new gofast boat for some of the few thousand people in this country that actually benefit from this sort of large-scale manipulation.
- verisimi 3mo ago
  > astroturfing works, and is only getting better/worse Perhaps one would say 'increasing' or 'decreasing'?

Forgeties79 3mo ago

Unfortunately in the current political climate “NGO” is just a hop and a step away from saying “the deep state” for some people. They vaguely gesture to it and talk about it as if it’s a bogeyman. Not saying they are specifically doing that, but I can’t confidently say they aren’t either

throwawayffffas 3mo ago

It's not they are not robots with no opinions. The agenda is the reason the organisation exists. NGOs exist to push agendas. If you are on the other side of an agenda it's always "outrageous" the government is funding them of course. I do not know who is pushing but if you think there is not an entire industry of "healthy" alternatives for the companies in the article, you are very much mistaken. Hell it might be the artificial sweetener industry, in the UK it's now practically impossible to buy a soda that is not full of artificial sweeteners, excluding regular coca cola, and regular red bull.

mcmcmc 3mo ago
Not all NGOs. Some are actually mission focused and spend their money and effort on direct action instead of policy or advocacy. Do you really think the purpose of Doctors Without Borders is to push an agenda? No. They provide care to those who would otherwise receive none, who would suffer and die from poverty as much as illness.
- AlotOfReading 3mo ago
  Unfortunately, there are actually people who believe that DWB's purpose is political. Here's an example from the Times of Israel [0]. [0] https://www.timesofisrael.com/doctors-without-borders-and-the-collapse-of-medical-neutrality/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/doctors-without-borders-and-th...
  - Pay08 3mo ago
    The article doesn't back up your comment.
    - AlotOfReading 3mo ago
      I'm not sure how you can read the article and think it isn't arguing MSF/DWB is political. A few quotes: Hamas operatives in Gaza hospitals, failure to screen out terrorists, and politicized leadership erode the Nobel Prize-winning aid group’s claim to neutrality While continuing to invoke the language of medical neutrality, its rhetoric has become overtly politicized, most notably in its discourse on Israel. From medical neutrality to political advocacy This ideological position has also been reinforced at the highest level of MSF’s international leadership. That silence leaves the international community to ask whether MSF is advocating for Palestinians or functioning as a humanitarian façade through which terror is laundered by the moral authority of humanitarian medicine.

verisimi 3mo ago

If you think any human endeavour, especially those that relate to handling of money, is without an agenda, I think you'd be wrong. If you also throw in the fact that this money is not taxed, you increase nefarious incentives. And that money can be given without needing to show the names publicly, this doesn't increase comfort. Finally, even if robots were to run these operations, someone would have to code them and own them, right?

overtone1000 3mo ago

Up vote for Big Celery.