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Fossil fuels can be replaced for every use case by electricity from carbon-free sources and some chemistry. The price point for replacement of course varies by

by adrianN 2mo ago

Fossil fuels can be replaced for every use case by electricity from carbon-free sources and some chemistry. The price point for replacement of course varies by application. There is no reason to assume that we can't have the same kind of economy we have today without fossil fuels. Some things will naturally become more expensive, but other things might also became cheaper.

palata 2mo ago
> There is no reason to assume that we can't have the same kind of economy Has there been, in history, the same kind of economy we have today without fossil fuels? No. That's a first reason. Are there practical replacements for every use case of fossil fuels? Most definitely not! I don't know where you get that. For those replacements we know, it has never been done at scale, so we don't know if it's possible or not. And for those we don't know... well we don't know. Just have a look at what petrochemicals are used for. And how do you make fertilisers without fossil fuels, at today's scale?
- adrianN 2mo ago
  You seem to believe that proof of feasibility is impossible before actually finishing the task. I disagree. And for the record, profit oriented market economies are extremely old. Much older than any large scale use of fossil fuels.
  - palata 2mo ago
    > And for the record, profit oriented market economies are extremely old. Of course it works if you take the part that is convenient to your argument. What about globalised economies?
    - adrianN 2mo ago
      Trade routes spanned Eurasia before we invented writing. Faster transportation and communication only expanded economic ties. Transportation is something that is fairly easy to do without fossil fuels.
      - palata 2mo ago
        Again, you conveniently forget the important part. Before we invented writing, we were not remotely transporting as much stuff as we are today. I mean, before fossil fuels, the world ran on renewables. But that's not at all a proof that we can easily go back to renewables: it was a different world then.

by adrianN 2mo ago

palata 2mo ago

> There is no reason to assume that we can't have the same kind of economy Has there been, in history, the same kind of economy we have today without fossil fuels? No. That's a first reason. Are there practical replacements for every use case of fossil fuels? Most definitely not! I don't know where you get that. For those replacements we know, it has never been done at scale, so we don't know if it's possible or not. And for those we don't know... well we don't know. Just have a look at what petrochemicals are used for. And how do you make fertilisers without fossil fuels, at today's scale?

adrianN 2mo ago
You seem to believe that proof of feasibility is impossible before actually finishing the task. I disagree. And for the record, profit oriented market economies are extremely old. Much older than any large scale use of fossil fuels.
- palata 2mo ago
  > And for the record, profit oriented market economies are extremely old. Of course it works if you take the part that is convenient to your argument. What about globalised economies?
  - adrianN 2mo ago
    Trade routes spanned Eurasia before we invented writing. Faster transportation and communication only expanded economic ties. Transportation is something that is fairly easy to do without fossil fuels.
    - palata 2mo ago
      Again, you conveniently forget the important part. Before we invented writing, we were not remotely transporting as much stuff as we are today. I mean, before fossil fuels, the world ran on renewables. But that's not at all a proof that we can easily go back to renewables: it was a different world then.