6 ms·

I don't think the "cheating" was anything unethical. I wrote about the pervasiveness of that (anti-)pattern this morning. http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2

I don't think the "cheating" was anything unethical. I wrote about the pervasiveness of that (anti-)pattern this morning. http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/fundamental-subordinate-dishonesty/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/fundamental-s... TL;DR: People have to seem more open to subordinate roles than they actually are in order to get jobs. It's not always greener on the software side of the fence, though. Much of the job is dealing with bad legacy code, which seems to hurt you more if you're a good designer (cf. first and second design paradox) which your well above-average writing skills suggest you are. I like Chicago a lot and think that it's a great place to live. Honestly, I think the obscene cost of living in New York and San Francisco has a negative overall impact on the quality of businesses that can be founded, but that's a rant for another time. Good luck!

peacemaker 14y ago
I would like to hear your thoughts on the cost of living and how it affects business quality? I think 'obscene' is the perfect word when talking about the cost of rent in SF. It's the number one factor in making me consider moving away from the area.
- dxbydt 14y ago
  I actually did the opposite. Owned a house in Chicago. Sold the house, moved to SF, bought a house in the suburbs, and now take the BART to twitter everyday. Rents are obscene if you want to live in SF proper...as you start moving out to the south Bay or better yet, East Bay, they drop quite dramatically. If you are willing to live in Concord or Pittsburg, you can easily find a 1K/mo rent. Even in Pleasant Hill I was able to land a 1.5K, and Walnut Creek & thereabouts will still be below 2K. Ofcourse you spend 45 minutes on the BART...but hey, there's a reason machine learning textbooks are 800+ pages....:) I have learnt so much in the past 3 months, & all the credit goes to BART.
  - peacemaker 14y ago
    Sure I can live an hour away from my workplace and sit on the BART 2 hours every day but it's quite well known that this kind of living is bad for you [1] and I know from experience I would hate doing that again. Why commute all that way when I can move somewhere much more reasonable and get a 3 bed house with a pool for the same price as a small 1 bed apartment in SF, AND only have a 10 minute drive to work? These places exist all over the world and contrary to popular belief around these parts, smart people and businesses do exist in places other than SV. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your_commute_is_killing_you.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your...
    - caniszczyk 14y ago
      Totally agree, that's the reason I'm in Austin.
      - ahlatimer 14y ago
        +1 for Austin. My base salary is slightly higher in Austin, mostly due to moving to a later-stage company, though the salaries really aren't that different. My take-home pay is noticeably higher because of that and the lack of state income tax. Couple that with a substantially lower cost of living [1], and my dollars go a lot farther. The financials of it isn't the end of it, though. The nightlife is better, the people are nicer, I can have a backyard, I'm not severely limiting my options by having dogs, and the weather is better (for me, but I'm used to hot). I'm significantly happier in Austin. [1]: My 2-bedroom house that I live in by myself costs about what I was paying for my share of a 2-bedroom apartment in SF. Both required about a 10 minute commute, though I drive in Austin where I could walk in SF. It extends beyond rent, though. Everything in SF is more expensive, though nothing is quite as dramatic as the rent.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        caniszczyk 14y ago
        On top of what you said, I think the culture and nightlife is amazing in Austin. There's more to do than in the bay area IMHO (this includes SF which most shit closes down early and has a sorry ass nightlife). The culture is a lot less vapid, people don't care where you work and I find people just more balanced. Furthermore, if you're fitness, there are so many running clubs, core classes and cycling races that go on. Note: I moved to the bay area for a couple years before heading back to Austin (I lived in Austin for a decade before wanting to try out the bay area, no idea why people like it so much).
  - zdgman 14y ago
    Coming from NYC and commuting on the subway everyday for around 40 minutes was a pleasure (as you could read a book, listen to music or do something else to amuse your time). Driving is any longer than 30 minutes to work (each way) is going to be more of a pain as you can only do so much in the car without endangering others. Public transportation when it works well in cities leads to people tolerating longer commutes to work. If I had to commute 45 minutes in CA traffic I would be very upset.
  - polyfractal 14y ago
    I commuted 45 minutes to work on the MBTA for about two years. I hate commuting...but if I'm going to do it, the train is a pretty swell way to get to work. I would either read or listen to podcasts. As an adult, I never get much time to just sit down and read (either fun fluff, or educational). The train was pretty great for that. That said, since moving from Boston, I'm so much happier. No commute, three times the space and a nicer apartment for half as much rent, better weather, close to the beach. South Carolina isn't exactly the mecca of technology, but telecommuting makes up for it.
  - ericabiz 14y ago
    I lived in Pleasant Hill and commuted on BART for 2 years. I ended up really hating it after a while. Later, I moved to Austin, where house prices are reasonable even if you want to live close to downtown, and you don't have to worry about long commutes just to save money. I have no regrets over gaining so much of my time back, and Austin has a thriving tech community.
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  Expensive real estate ruins the culture, makes personal burn rates high, and creates a sense of transience. You don't feel like you really belong until you have enough money that you don't need to work and (for most) have ceased to be a productive part of society. When people have to beat others down just to afford to live in the city, it's bad, and most people lack the talent or opportunity to make that amount of money (300k+, for a family) through decent means. The transience, I think, is behind a lot of the build-to-flips that are degenerate gambles on social trends. Silicon Valley happened because California land was cheap-- at one time.
  - ahlatimer 14y ago
    I recently left SF, and the culture, along with the rent, are two big reasons why I decided to leave. I hadn't put the two together, though, but I think it's a pretty accurate conclusion. The sheer number of startups and engineers in the same place can be pretty fantastic, and there isn't anywhere else that can compete (NYC to some extent, I suppose). In the end, though, it's just an unusually large collection of tech-minded individuals in what amounts to a fairly terrible place to live. YMMV, of course.
  - muzz 14y ago
    > Silicon Valley happened because California land was cheap-- at one time. You're being facetious here, hopefully. In any case, San Francisco was never cheap, where OP's startup is.
    - michaelochurch 14y ago
      Silicon Valley started in the 1950s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laboratory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laborato... . It was affordable until the mid-90s.
  - carlio 14y ago
    Which is why Berlin is very much a good place for startups right now. The rent is still very cheap, but there's a huge concentration of creative people wanting to create companies. This will fade over time just like in SV, but for now, it's one of the best places to be for small companies.
w1ntermute 14y ago
> I like Chicago a lot and think that it's a great place to live. Honestly, I think the obscene cost of living in New York and San Francisco has a negative overall impact on the quality of businesses that can be founded, but that's a rant for another time. Well, I'm going to talk about it now, if you don't mind :P If you look at a list of US MSAs[0], you can see that there are quite a few very large cities with low costs of living. For example, the Dallas and Houston MSAs are ranked 4th and 5th (SF is 11th), and are in a state that has a relatively low cost of living, not least due to the 0% income tax. Houston in particular is known for its lack of zoning laws (though some say not a complete lack), which drives down housing costs - the direct opposite of SF. Although many people might think that they'll be surrounded by teabagging creationists if they go to Dallas or Houston, you'll actually find that there are a lot of young people in the cities that aren't your average Texan (and often aren't even from Texas). You obviously lose some of the network effects advantages by moving to the Midwest, but I think such issues are becoming less and less important with each passing day, partially due to the connectivity provided by the internet, and partially due to a geographical diversification of the tech industry. 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropol...
- kodablah 14y ago
  I live in Dallas and there is a significant level of opportunity here for both employers/entrepreneurs and employees. Anecdotally, neither myself nor other talented devs I know have ever struggled finding intriguing work (I work at SoftLayer) or finding qualified coworkers. I will say though that Dallas does not have anywhere near the scene when it comes to the social aspect of development/employment. The conferences are sporadic and not very big. Then gain, I am not a big conference person, so it does not bother me.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    Can you provide your personal perspective on the cost of living and quality of life in Dallas, as opposed to SF or NYC?
tptacek 14y ago
It is, in particular, from several years of experience, much easier to recruit in Chicago. We have offices in NYC, Chicago, and Mountain View, all of comparable excellence. Cost of living is lower in Chicago, there's less intense competition in Chicago (in particular, there's no equivalent of Google looming over every Chicago team member), and people in Chicago tend to live here because they want (or need) to live here; they're "stickier".

peacemaker 14y ago

I would like to hear your thoughts on the cost of living and how it affects business quality? I think 'obscene' is the perfect word when talking about the cost of rent in SF. It's the number one factor in making me consider moving away from the area.

dxbydt 14y ago
I actually did the opposite. Owned a house in Chicago. Sold the house, moved to SF, bought a house in the suburbs, and now take the BART to twitter everyday. Rents are obscene if you want to live in SF proper...as you start moving out to the south Bay or better yet, East Bay, they drop quite dramatically. If you are willing to live in Concord or Pittsburg, you can easily find a 1K/mo rent. Even in Pleasant Hill I was able to land a 1.5K, and Walnut Creek & thereabouts will still be below 2K. Ofcourse you spend 45 minutes on the BART...but hey, there's a reason machine learning textbooks are 800+ pages....:) I have learnt so much in the past 3 months, & all the credit goes to BART.
- peacemaker 14y ago
  Sure I can live an hour away from my workplace and sit on the BART 2 hours every day but it's quite well known that this kind of living is bad for you [1] and I know from experience I would hate doing that again. Why commute all that way when I can move somewhere much more reasonable and get a 3 bed house with a pool for the same price as a small 1 bed apartment in SF, AND only have a 10 minute drive to work? These places exist all over the world and contrary to popular belief around these parts, smart people and businesses do exist in places other than SV. [1] http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your_commute_is_killing_you.html http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/05/your...
  - caniszczyk 14y ago
    Totally agree, that's the reason I'm in Austin.
    - ahlatimer 14y ago
      +1 for Austin. My base salary is slightly higher in Austin, mostly due to moving to a later-stage company, though the salaries really aren't that different. My take-home pay is noticeably higher because of that and the lack of state income tax. Couple that with a substantially lower cost of living [1], and my dollars go a lot farther. The financials of it isn't the end of it, though. The nightlife is better, the people are nicer, I can have a backyard, I'm not severely limiting my options by having dogs, and the weather is better (for me, but I'm used to hot). I'm significantly happier in Austin. [1]: My 2-bedroom house that I live in by myself costs about what I was paying for my share of a 2-bedroom apartment in SF. Both required about a 10 minute commute, though I drive in Austin where I could walk in SF. It extends beyond rent, though. Everything in SF is more expensive, though nothing is quite as dramatic as the rent.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - caniszczyk 14y ago
        On top of what you said, I think the culture and nightlife is amazing in Austin. There's more to do than in the bay area IMHO (this includes SF which most shit closes down early and has a sorry ass nightlife). The culture is a lot less vapid, people don't care where you work and I find people just more balanced. Furthermore, if you're fitness, there are so many running clubs, core classes and cycling races that go on. Note: I moved to the bay area for a couple years before heading back to Austin (I lived in Austin for a decade before wanting to try out the bay area, no idea why people like it so much).
- zdgman 14y ago
  Coming from NYC and commuting on the subway everyday for around 40 minutes was a pleasure (as you could read a book, listen to music or do something else to amuse your time). Driving is any longer than 30 minutes to work (each way) is going to be more of a pain as you can only do so much in the car without endangering others. Public transportation when it works well in cities leads to people tolerating longer commutes to work. If I had to commute 45 minutes in CA traffic I would be very upset.
- polyfractal 14y ago
  I commuted 45 minutes to work on the MBTA for about two years. I hate commuting...but if I'm going to do it, the train is a pretty swell way to get to work. I would either read or listen to podcasts. As an adult, I never get much time to just sit down and read (either fun fluff, or educational). The train was pretty great for that. That said, since moving from Boston, I'm so much happier. No commute, three times the space and a nicer apartment for half as much rent, better weather, close to the beach. South Carolina isn't exactly the mecca of technology, but telecommuting makes up for it.
- ericabiz 14y ago
  I lived in Pleasant Hill and commuted on BART for 2 years. I ended up really hating it after a while. Later, I moved to Austin, where house prices are reasonable even if you want to live close to downtown, and you don't have to worry about long commutes just to save money. I have no regrets over gaining so much of my time back, and Austin has a thriving tech community.
michaelochurch 14y ago
Expensive real estate ruins the culture, makes personal burn rates high, and creates a sense of transience. You don't feel like you really belong until you have enough money that you don't need to work and (for most) have ceased to be a productive part of society. When people have to beat others down just to afford to live in the city, it's bad, and most people lack the talent or opportunity to make that amount of money (300k+, for a family) through decent means. The transience, I think, is behind a lot of the build-to-flips that are degenerate gambles on social trends. Silicon Valley happened because California land was cheap-- at one time.
- ahlatimer 14y ago
  I recently left SF, and the culture, along with the rent, are two big reasons why I decided to leave. I hadn't put the two together, though, but I think it's a pretty accurate conclusion. The sheer number of startups and engineers in the same place can be pretty fantastic, and there isn't anywhere else that can compete (NYC to some extent, I suppose). In the end, though, it's just an unusually large collection of tech-minded individuals in what amounts to a fairly terrible place to live. YMMV, of course.
- muzz 14y ago
  > Silicon Valley happened because California land was cheap-- at one time. You're being facetious here, hopefully. In any case, San Francisco was never cheap, where OP's startup is.
  - michaelochurch 14y ago
    Silicon Valley started in the 1950s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laboratory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley_Semiconductor_Laborato... . It was affordable until the mid-90s.
- carlio 14y ago
  Which is why Berlin is very much a good place for startups right now. The rent is still very cheap, but there's a huge concentration of creative people wanting to create companies. This will fade over time just like in SV, but for now, it's one of the best places to be for small companies.

w1ntermute 14y ago

> I like Chicago a lot and think that it's a great place to live. Honestly, I think the obscene cost of living in New York and San Francisco has a negative overall impact on the quality of businesses that can be founded, but that's a rant for another time. Well, I'm going to talk about it now, if you don't mind :P If you look at a list of US MSAs[0], you can see that there are quite a few very large cities with low costs of living. For example, the Dallas and Houston MSAs are ranked 4th and 5th (SF is 11th), and are in a state that has a relatively low cost of living, not least due to the 0% income tax. Houston in particular is known for its lack of zoning laws (though some say not a complete lack), which drives down housing costs - the direct opposite of SF. Although many people might think that they'll be surrounded by teabagging creationists if they go to Dallas or Houston, you'll actually find that there are a lot of young people in the cities that aren't your average Texan (and often aren't even from Texas). You obviously lose some of the network effects advantages by moving to the Midwest, but I think such issues are becoming less and less important with each passing day, partially due to the connectivity provided by the internet, and partially due to a geographical diversification of the tech industry. 0: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropol...

kodablah 14y ago
I live in Dallas and there is a significant level of opportunity here for both employers/entrepreneurs and employees. Anecdotally, neither myself nor other talented devs I know have ever struggled finding intriguing work (I work at SoftLayer) or finding qualified coworkers. I will say though that Dallas does not have anywhere near the scene when it comes to the social aspect of development/employment. The conferences are sporadic and not very big. Then gain, I am not a big conference person, so it does not bother me.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Can you provide your personal perspective on the cost of living and quality of life in Dallas, as opposed to SF or NYC?

tptacek 14y ago

It is, in particular, from several years of experience, much easier to recruit in Chicago. We have offices in NYC, Chicago, and Mountain View, all of comparable excellence. Cost of living is lower in Chicago, there's less intense competition in Chicago (in particular, there's no equivalent of Google looming over every Chicago team member), and people in Chicago tend to live here because they want (or need) to live here; they're "stickier".