5 ms·

Aye, but we only sorta kinda "know" what things like black holes might be. We have models that make sense to us based on our understanding of science, and we th

Aye, but we only sorta kinda "know" what things like black holes might be. We have models that make sense to us based on our understanding of science, and we think our instruments can faithfully report on what they can be with measurements we believe we are making correctly, but we have no clue what we don't know, and no real way to prove it, just theorize, and sort of bundle up what we believe is data supporting it.

blooalien 3mo ago
"The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know." — Aristotle
- shusaku 3mo ago
  The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know to whom you should ascribe a quote.
  - blooalien 3mo ago
    @shusaku> "The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know to whom you should ascribe a quote." Well, so far I see variants of this particular quote from Aristotle, Einstein, and Voltaire. Someone else probably said it earlier than any of 'em probably, but I honestly don't care enough to dig any deeper than this. Besides, half the time I've dug deeper into Mark Twain or Albert Einstein quotes (just for a couple really common examples) I find that they're attributed with saying a thing they never actually said anyhow, so... :shrug: https://motivane.com/quote/more-you-know-more-you-dont-know/ https://motivane.com/quote/more-you-know-more-you-dont-know/ https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/620163-the-more-i-learn-the-more-i-realize-how-much https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/620163-the-more-i-learn-the... https://wiseopinions.substack.com/p/voltaires-paradox-about-knowledge https://wiseopinions.substack.com/p/voltaires-paradox-about-...
- odyssey7 3mo ago
  Could have learned a thing from Socrates.
  - BobbyTables2 3mo ago
    and Donald Rumsfeld (;->
jeremyjh 3mo ago
There are so many observations that fit the theory at this point, that we know there is a supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy just as well as we knew the earth orbited the sun before the voyager flight.
- oersted 3mo ago
  Well, it seems that the question still remains somewhat open. There are theories that fit the data as well or better than the black-hole model. My naive intuition is that this is mostly just physicist publishing papers and throwing some exotic ideas out (we still don't know enough about dark matter), and that the black-hole model will remain as the consensus. But it's not as unquestionable as you say it is. > An alternative to the black hole (BH) scenario has been recently proposed in terms of a supermassive compact object composed of self-gravitating fermionic dark matter (DM). https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/546/1/staf1854/8431112 https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/546/1/staf1854/843111... > Sagittarius A* Might Not Be a Black Hole https://youtu.be/7tRww03EKlk?si=0XcJ1yw-gPj1IzQW https://youtu.be/7tRww03EKlk?si=0XcJ1yw-gPj1IzQW
  - jambalaya8 3mo ago
    I am one of those people that feel that dark matter is not something humans should be studying too much. Just like hadrons, wormholes, and those people interested in creating lab-based little black holes. It strikes me as naive and dangerous to assume all physics is meant to be studied. Just because we know splitting atoms can make really big explosions, for instance, doesn't mean it might not have had other effects on the fabric of the universe we lack the mental facilities, advanced knowledge, or context to fathom.
- jambalaya8 3mo ago
  Still remembering how many people bought into m-branes and p-branes.
  - jeremyjh 3mo ago
    Black holes are simply a consequence of GR, which has made more successful predictions than just about any physical theory. Did M-branes make any successful predictions?
mmooss 3mo ago
> we have no clue what we don't know We have very good ideas about it, including the issue described in the OP. We also don't know how gravity and the other forces work together. We don't know where other life is in the universe. We don't know how to travel to other stars. We don't know what is under the surface of Europa (but we'll soon find out). And we have a very good idea of what we know because our theories, based on our observations, predict things accurately. The original upthread comment and followup seem like taking some philosophical questions to logical extremes.

blooalien 3mo ago

"The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know." — Aristotle

shusaku 3mo ago
The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know to whom you should ascribe a quote.
- blooalien 3mo ago
  @shusaku> "The more you know, the more you realize you don’t know to whom you should ascribe a quote." Well, so far I see variants of this particular quote from Aristotle, Einstein, and Voltaire. Someone else probably said it earlier than any of 'em probably, but I honestly don't care enough to dig any deeper than this. Besides, half the time I've dug deeper into Mark Twain or Albert Einstein quotes (just for a couple really common examples) I find that they're attributed with saying a thing they never actually said anyhow, so... :shrug: https://motivane.com/quote/more-you-know-more-you-dont-know/ https://motivane.com/quote/more-you-know-more-you-dont-know/ https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/620163-the-more-i-learn-the-more-i-realize-how-much https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/620163-the-more-i-learn-the... https://wiseopinions.substack.com/p/voltaires-paradox-about-knowledge https://wiseopinions.substack.com/p/voltaires-paradox-about-...
odyssey7 3mo ago
Could have learned a thing from Socrates.
- BobbyTables2 3mo ago
  and Donald Rumsfeld (;->

jeremyjh 3mo ago

There are so many observations that fit the theory at this point, that we know there is a supermassive black hole in the center of our galaxy just as well as we knew the earth orbited the sun before the voyager flight.

oersted 3mo ago
Well, it seems that the question still remains somewhat open. There are theories that fit the data as well or better than the black-hole model. My naive intuition is that this is mostly just physicist publishing papers and throwing some exotic ideas out (we still don't know enough about dark matter), and that the black-hole model will remain as the consensus. But it's not as unquestionable as you say it is. > An alternative to the black hole (BH) scenario has been recently proposed in terms of a supermassive compact object composed of self-gravitating fermionic dark matter (DM). https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/546/1/staf1854/8431112 https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/546/1/staf1854/843111... > Sagittarius A* Might Not Be a Black Hole https://youtu.be/7tRww03EKlk?si=0XcJ1yw-gPj1IzQW https://youtu.be/7tRww03EKlk?si=0XcJ1yw-gPj1IzQW
- jambalaya8 3mo ago
  I am one of those people that feel that dark matter is not something humans should be studying too much. Just like hadrons, wormholes, and those people interested in creating lab-based little black holes. It strikes me as naive and dangerous to assume all physics is meant to be studied. Just because we know splitting atoms can make really big explosions, for instance, doesn't mean it might not have had other effects on the fabric of the universe we lack the mental facilities, advanced knowledge, or context to fathom.
jambalaya8 3mo ago
Still remembering how many people bought into m-branes and p-branes.
- jeremyjh 3mo ago
  Black holes are simply a consequence of GR, which has made more successful predictions than just about any physical theory. Did M-branes make any successful predictions?

mmooss 3mo ago

> we have no clue what we don't know We have very good ideas about it, including the issue described in the OP. We also don't know how gravity and the other forces work together. We don't know where other life is in the universe. We don't know how to travel to other stars. We don't know what is under the surface of Europa (but we'll soon find out). And we have a very good idea of what we know because our theories, based on our observations, predict things accurately. The original upthread comment and followup seem like taking some philosophical questions to logical extremes.