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Thousands of People break through border separating Morocco from Spain's Ceuta
- vrganj 3mo agoWhy does Spain hold on to this little piece of imperial history on another continent? Feels like asking for trouble...
- crbelaus 3mo agoCeuta is an integral part of Spain, not a “piece of imperial history”. It has belonged to Spain since 1580. That’s one century after the Spanish kingdoms unification and four centuries before Morocco existed as an independent state.
- KellyCriterion 2mo ago...and how does this lead to the statement that they still need to keep it today as their territory? Its a residue from the colonial history
- alecsm 2mo agoBecause it is Spain, it's not a "territory they are keeping". Ceuta was Spanish before the US even existed.
- vrganj 2mo agoWhy is the US part of the consideration? How do you think it became Spain? Do you think some African dudes one day started saying "Hola, ahora somos Españoles?" Nah, some Portuguese guys with weapons showed up in 1415 (it was Portugal before becoming Spanish through marriage). You know what you call it when people with weapons expand their territory on other continents? Imperialism.
- alecsm 2mo agoHow do you think Morocco became Morocco? Do you think some Moroccan dudes one day started saying they are Moroccans? That's how stupid your question is. There are several countries that span over more than one continent and that doesn't mean they have to give away their territories just because.
- KellyCriterion 2mo agoThe question is: Where do you draw the line? Because if you go back far enough, then "always any territory belonged already to someone else or the ancestors somewhen in time" :-)) So, one might argue the "original borders" are the "true one" at that point when national states started to exist (in fact, the nation/national state is a very young construct, around ~300 years)
- vrganj 2mo agoNot just because. Because it causes huge logistical problems (as evidenced by this post) for no conceivable gain and was an ill-advised acquisition from an era of imperial conquest. The only reason to hold on to it at this point is Western chauvinism. The rest of Europe has long given up its colonial holdings in Africa. Why are Spaniards holding on to this relic that causes nothing but trouble? Just let the Africans have Africa. Same logic applies to Gibraltar (just let the Spanish have Spain) and the Falklands (just let the Argentines have Argentina) fwiw. All these little colonial outposts cause nothing but trouble and only still exist because of chauvinism
- alecsm 2mo agoNo. Ceuta and Melilla have been Spanish cities for centuries with 95% and 86% of Spanish population. How would you feel living where your family have been living forever and one day they tell you you're no longer Spanish, you're out of the EU and you live in Morocco. Is the US giving away Hawaii? Is Russia giving away its Asian territory? What about Turkey? Does Spain have to give away the Canary Islands too?
- 2mo ago
- KellyCriterion 2mo agoUnfortunately, this is not the correct interpretation: Spain became a unified nation in 1492 after the union of the Crown of Castile and the Crown of Aragon. Ceuta was acquired "somehow around that time block", so its not true to say that Ceuta was always (ie "since ever") a part of Spain, since it was acquired shortly after the forming of Spain.
- breppp 2mo agoAlgeria used to be France, not just a "territory they are keeping". So we have an overseas territory in another continent whose acquisition literally marked the beginning of the age of colonization. Sounds like a colony
- torcete 2mo agoIt is not. It's an integral part of Spain, and their citizens have exactly the same rights than the rest of us. They also have representation at the parliament. Ceuta has been part of Spain before Morocco existed, there's no claim they can make. It even went back to Roman times, when the territory was called Mauritania Hispania. That included the Riff, so if anybody needs to return any territory that would be Morocco.
- cineticdaffodil 2mo agoBecause if you compromise with mad ideologies you loose a hand..
- AshamedCaptain 2mo agoI now realize how hypocritical it is for Spain to ask about Gibraltar to the UK while they still are keeping Ceuta in Morocco.
- cineticdaffodil 2mo ago[flagged]
- defrost 2mo agoSee: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cineticdaffodil 2mo agoYeah, we should deport all those insane ideolouges of the west there from the countryside, call it utopia and leave them to it, like the likes of you left the cities once you destroyed them.