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"Use google please, our searching and listing algorithm is not as good as theirs". Most people don't return to Google after the initial access to the website,

"Use google please, our searching and listing algorithm is not as good as theirs". Most people don't return to Google after the initial access to the website, they keep using the Wikipedia interface when they need to search related subjects. And I will surely throw away some books from the library if random people were allowed to put their books in there. And the killer blow is the second part.

jacques_chester 14y ago
... huh? Edit: since you added this -- > Most people don't return to Google after the initial access to the website, they keep using the Wikipedia interface when they need to search related subjects. I'll bet you $100, AUD or USD, to be donated to the charity of your choice, that this is not so, by a factor of at least 10 to 1. As I said, this does not include following links in articles. I am talking about the wikipedia search engine and category pages. I am talking about search engines generally, though I expect google to be the dominant one.
- jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
  I will gladly accept the bet if you can find a trustful way of getting that data, because honestly I can't think about one. And you overall do have a point, but is not as strong as you think it is.
  - stephenhuey 14y ago
    How are you so sure most people don't return to Google? I do it more than half the time, and just add Wikipedia as a search term to narrow the results. For years I've felt it made my search more fruitful than using Wikipedia's search. Maybe my feelings are wrong, but if I feel this way, then a lot of other people could, too!
    - gojomo 14y ago
      You can tell from auto-complete many people add 'wiki' or 'wikipedia' to searches at Google. And with the growth of Google-search-from-browser fields, I would also strongly expect that most people who type reformulated queries during an extended Wikipedia session do so through Google, not Wikipedia's much weaker onsite search.
      - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
        A little test show otherwise: http://imgur.com/hBuzt http://imgur.com/hBuzt (Unlogged-in / Cookieless) Perhaps is related to the kind of subjects you are searching for; or it may just personalization by google. Or maybe we are both biased for ultimately silly reasons and the truth lies somewhere in the middle but the lack of available data reduces everything to mere speculation.
        gojomo 14y ago
        This 'little test' on 3 arbitrary early-20th-century historical names, only looking at the top 4 suggestions, doesn't 'show otherwise'. I said 'many people', not 'most'. Turn off 'instant' so you see the top 10 autocompletions, and watch over all your queries. You will very often see "wiki" as a suggested suffix. Or better yet, just add " w" to the end of any of your own tests: " wiki" will be the top suggestion, which demonstrates that 'many' people add it as a suffix on Google. Everything on this question is not reduced to bias and 'mere speculation'. I've observed many peoples' search behavior, not just my own, and habitual recourse to browser-based search boxes or always-requery-at-Google is growing over time (especially with the rise of Chrome and its 'onebox'). Wikipedia also did usability studies in the 2009-2010 timeframe, from which Wikimedia director/developer Erik Moeller reported: "our test subjects tended to resort to common web search engines to navigate Wikipedia instead of using the site’s own search" [1]. (Wikipedia has since moved the site search box to help it be found, and I suspect that's boosted its use, but it's still subtle compared to the always-available, always-familiar in-browser Google-powered search.) [1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/15/usability-why-did-we-move-the-search-box/ http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/15/usability-why-did-we-mo...

jacques_chester 14y ago

... huh? Edit: since you added this -- > Most people don't return to Google after the initial access to the website, they keep using the Wikipedia interface when they need to search related subjects. I'll bet you $100, AUD or USD, to be donated to the charity of your choice, that this is not so, by a factor of at least 10 to 1. As I said, this does not include following links in articles. I am talking about the wikipedia search engine and category pages. I am talking about search engines generally, though I expect google to be the dominant one.

jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
I will gladly accept the bet if you can find a trustful way of getting that data, because honestly I can't think about one. And you overall do have a point, but is not as strong as you think it is.
- stephenhuey 14y ago
  How are you so sure most people don't return to Google? I do it more than half the time, and just add Wikipedia as a search term to narrow the results. For years I've felt it made my search more fruitful than using Wikipedia's search. Maybe my feelings are wrong, but if I feel this way, then a lot of other people could, too!
  - gojomo 14y ago
    You can tell from auto-complete many people add 'wiki' or 'wikipedia' to searches at Google. And with the growth of Google-search-from-browser fields, I would also strongly expect that most people who type reformulated queries during an extended Wikipedia session do so through Google, not Wikipedia's much weaker onsite search.
    - jQueryIsAwesome 14y ago
      A little test show otherwise: http://imgur.com/hBuzt http://imgur.com/hBuzt (Unlogged-in / Cookieless) Perhaps is related to the kind of subjects you are searching for; or it may just personalization by google. Or maybe we are both biased for ultimately silly reasons and the truth lies somewhere in the middle but the lack of available data reduces everything to mere speculation.
      - gojomo 14y ago
        This 'little test' on 3 arbitrary early-20th-century historical names, only looking at the top 4 suggestions, doesn't 'show otherwise'. I said 'many people', not 'most'. Turn off 'instant' so you see the top 10 autocompletions, and watch over all your queries. You will very often see "wiki" as a suggested suffix. Or better yet, just add " w" to the end of any of your own tests: " wiki" will be the top suggestion, which demonstrates that 'many' people add it as a suffix on Google. Everything on this question is not reduced to bias and 'mere speculation'. I've observed many peoples' search behavior, not just my own, and habitual recourse to browser-based search boxes or always-requery-at-Google is growing over time (especially with the rise of Chrome and its 'onebox'). Wikipedia also did usability studies in the 2009-2010 timeframe, from which Wikimedia director/developer Erik Moeller reported: "our test subjects tended to resort to common web search engines to navigate Wikipedia instead of using the site’s own search" [1]. (Wikipedia has since moved the site search box to help it be found, and I suspect that's boosted its use, but it's still subtle compared to the always-available, always-familiar in-browser Google-powered search.) [1] http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/15/usability-why-did-we-move-the-search-box/ http://blog.wikimedia.org/2010/06/15/usability-why-did-we-mo...