3 ms·

I'm probably somewhat older than most here. What OP is describing is what used to be normal and should still be! In the past it was normal to write a CV (resu

by gerdesj 2mo ago

I'm probably somewhat older than most here. What OP is describing is what used to be normal and should still be! In the past it was normal to write a CV (resume) and a covering letter that was mildly tailored to each target firm, either in response to a job advert or on spec. I'm not talking quill pens here - you'd do a mail merge and buy a really large book of stamps. Linked In is possibly the worst thing that ever happened to HR but it was inevitable and someone else would do it instead if they did not. The whole point is ... show interest, actual interest in an employer you are interested in and whatever they are doing. Find a way in. If they only use LLM based 'bots and can't be arsed with a 'phone call then fuck 'em!

tayo42 2mo ago
I feel like companies that are genuinely interesting are pretty rare. Then you'll still get two rounds of leet code and system design.
- gerdesj 2mo ago
  Well my little company has at least three employees that came back again after leaving. Two of them are still here. We are not particularly interesting ... What I'm advocating for here is trying out new (old) methods of waving your CV/resume at an employer. I graduated as a civil engineering technician (BTEC HND) in the UK in 1990. I did a "sabbatical" ... cough rag (basically pissed up for a year for charity is a fair description of that). The building industry in the UK collapsed in 1991 along with a rather nasty recession. Obviously I ended up in IT! It took a while but I completely reskilled and to cut a very long story short in 2000 me and a couple of other chaps formed a little company that is still running. Enough of me. Getting hired is hard but I would suggest that you don't simply rely on Linked In.
  - t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
    Good advice. Job boards are actually the lowest probability option. The trouble is, they are often still the best option. When you don't have previous experience or contacts in the industry you can wait a long time for an opportunity. Interning, open source, microqualifications, freelancing, self employment -- I've done the lot. What I have learned is: work for your salary, but always keep your eye on the next job. The marketplace is extremely transactional. Expect to provide value from day 1, and forget working your way up.
kevin_thibedeau 2mo ago
I abandoned cover letters when I showed up to an interview and the interviewer complained that my resume was too thin. That was on purpose because a lot of the meat was in the cover letter that he never received. I just merged them and gave up on customization when ATSs started being used to cull 99% of applicants.
- treszkai 2mo ago
  ...99% of applicants who apply through the standard route.
zahrevsky 2mo ago
The craziest part is that this tailored approach is now a red flag, because HR just assumes your covering letter is LLM-generated. “Damn kids, they're all alike” vibes.
- brabel 2mo ago
  Using a LLM is probably seen as a positive thing by recruiters, it shows you are an AI “Engineer”.
  - nkapias 2mo ago
    Once, an applicant had a pipeline to correlate open positions to his resume and generate cover letters. He was open about it and shared a public repo, thus it was perceived positively. Finally the job didn't correspond to his profile and objectives. I have not checked if he improved it later, I guess he did.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Assumes? They're using an LLM themselves, and they don't read the cover letter anyway, and if they did, they don't see what's wrong with using an LLM.
altmanaltman 2mo ago
And what is your advice for the employer to actually reciprocate that interest instead of treating their employees like cattle? Both sides of the equation have changed
tonyedgecombe 2mo ago
In a world with LinkedIn perhaps sending a letter is a good way to bypass the hordes.
- t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
  In a world of automated junk mail and spam, there are good odds that the unread message will be immediately trashed. Most people won't take a call from an unexpected number even if the phone is already in their hand.
duxup 2mo ago
When applying for jobs I often wish I could just have 5 min with the "boss" in charge of the given role. Or even just have them do a video talking about what they do... that's it, that's all the meat. I'll happily watch thousands and skip what doesn't fit me and pick what does ... But everything is hidden.

by gerdesj 2mo ago

tayo42 2mo ago

I feel like companies that are genuinely interesting are pretty rare. Then you'll still get two rounds of leet code and system design.

gerdesj 2mo ago
Well my little company has at least three employees that came back again after leaving. Two of them are still here. We are not particularly interesting ... What I'm advocating for here is trying out new (old) methods of waving your CV/resume at an employer. I graduated as a civil engineering technician (BTEC HND) in the UK in 1990. I did a "sabbatical" ... cough rag (basically pissed up for a year for charity is a fair description of that). The building industry in the UK collapsed in 1991 along with a rather nasty recession. Obviously I ended up in IT! It took a while but I completely reskilled and to cut a very long story short in 2000 me and a couple of other chaps formed a little company that is still running. Enough of me. Getting hired is hard but I would suggest that you don't simply rely on Linked In.
- t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
  Good advice. Job boards are actually the lowest probability option. The trouble is, they are often still the best option. When you don't have previous experience or contacts in the industry you can wait a long time for an opportunity. Interning, open source, microqualifications, freelancing, self employment -- I've done the lot. What I have learned is: work for your salary, but always keep your eye on the next job. The marketplace is extremely transactional. Expect to provide value from day 1, and forget working your way up.

kevin_thibedeau 2mo ago

I abandoned cover letters when I showed up to an interview and the interviewer complained that my resume was too thin. That was on purpose because a lot of the meat was in the cover letter that he never received. I just merged them and gave up on customization when ATSs started being used to cull 99% of applicants.

treszkai 2mo ago
...99% of applicants who apply through the standard route.

zahrevsky 2mo ago

The craziest part is that this tailored approach is now a red flag, because HR just assumes your covering letter is LLM-generated. “Damn kids, they're all alike” vibes.

brabel 2mo ago
Using a LLM is probably seen as a positive thing by recruiters, it shows you are an AI “Engineer”.
- nkapias 2mo ago
  Once, an applicant had a pipeline to correlate open positions to his resume and generate cover letters. He was open about it and shared a public repo, thus it was perceived positively. Finally the job didn't correspond to his profile and objectives. I have not checked if he improved it later, I guess he did.
inigyou 2mo ago
Assumes? They're using an LLM themselves, and they don't read the cover letter anyway, and if they did, they don't see what's wrong with using an LLM.

altmanaltman 2mo ago

And what is your advice for the employer to actually reciprocate that interest instead of treating their employees like cattle? Both sides of the equation have changed

tonyedgecombe 2mo ago

In a world with LinkedIn perhaps sending a letter is a good way to bypass the hordes.

t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
In a world of automated junk mail and spam, there are good odds that the unread message will be immediately trashed. Most people won't take a call from an unexpected number even if the phone is already in their hand.

duxup 2mo ago

When applying for jobs I often wish I could just have 5 min with the "boss" in charge of the given role. Or even just have them do a video talking about what they do... that's it, that's all the meat. I'll happily watch thousands and skip what doesn't fit me and pick what does ... But everything is hidden.