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Is that why wages in the US are double those in europe or more

by 3748949494 2mo ago

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
autoexec 2mo ago
It's because the most massive costs an American has like healthcare, child care, and higher education are free or vastly less expensive in Europe. Americans spend all their time at work for a very impressive number on their paystub while they're still one accident or illness away from homelessness or bankruptcy. Europeans get higher quality of life/happiness scores and spend far less time slaving away for their boss. Just because the number on your paycheck is bigger, it doesn't mean you're winning.
- cwbuilds 2mo ago
  Not sure we do have better quality of life in Europe. We may have in the 2000s, but we're in decline relative to the US. Even if you take things like healthcare into account: US average disposable income is $51,000, while it's $32,000 in the UK (with higher rents in the UK than the US).
  - autoexec 2mo ago
    The UK is still better a lot of ways but there's a reason it's called "the America of Europe"
    - cwbuilds 2mo ago
      Depends who you are. 16% of the UK is in absolute poverty (20% if you account for housing costs), while only 10% are in absolute poverty in the US. I'd rather be an American on an average salary paying for healthcare than in the UK on a much lower average salary. Property costs/rents are much higher and our public services like healthcare are crumbling (my dad nearly died in a hospital corridor because there were no beds left). I know that last bit is anecdotal, but it's a country-wide problem.
  - alistairSH 2mo ago
    Citation? Median earnings is less than that. And median household income is only marginally more. the U.S. Census Bureau estimates that the median annual earnings for all workers (people aged 15 and over with earnings) was $51,370; and more specifically estimates that median annual earnings for those who worked full-time, year round, was $63,360. According to the CPS, the median household income was $70,784 in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
    - cwbuilds 2mo ago
      That's income, not disposable income. It's also median, instead of mean. It's also wrong. Median income in the UK is £39,039 which is about $49,500.. You linked to the US Wikipedia page twice. OECD is the source for disposable income. US: https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countries/united-states/ https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countrie... UK: https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countries/united-kingdom/ https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countrie...
      - alistairSH 2mo ago
        Yeah, OECD is saying the mean disposable income is the US is almost the same as median household income. Either some of the numbers are wrong, or your (OECD’s) use of mean is misleading… the mean of Bezos’ and my disposable incomes is a very large and mostly useless figure.
        dragonwriter 2mo ago
        Mean personal disposable income being comparable to median household income isn't too surprising and doesn't necessarily indicate any error. Mean is much higher than median, individual is much lower than household, disposable is much lower than total. You are comparing numbers that are different in all three axes (in ways which do not point in the same direction), so really any relationship between them would be plausible without detailed knowledge of the exact distribution of all the relevant components.
- strictnein 2mo ago
  > higher education are free Many of the states[0] have started offering free or low cost tuition for their public community colleges and trade schools, and low cost tuition for their colleges and universities. For example, Minnesota offers tuition at a state college starting at $6k a year[0] and free tuition at community colleges if you're earning under $80k[1]. Those prices are before financial aid, grants, scholarships, etc which are widely available from multiple sources. [0] https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/states-with-free-tuition/ https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/states-with-free-tuition/ [1] https://www.minnstate.edu/admissions/affordability.html https://www.minnstate.edu/admissions/affordability.html [2] https://www.nhcc.edu/free-college-tuition-nhcc https://www.nhcc.edu/free-college-tuition-nhcc As for the rest of your comment, you have a very distorted of what life in the US is like. Also, nothing you list is "free" in Europe, there's just a lot of rather regressive taxes that are collected to pay for it all. The US federal tax structure is actually rather progressive, but that also means there's less money for the feds to pay for all of those "free" things.
ambicapter 2mo ago
What does that matter when cost of living is commensurately expensive?
AlotOfReading 2mo ago
The median salary in the US is $43k for the latest year I see data (2023). Median salary in the Netherlands and Germany was €44-48k or ~$50-55k. We might make half as much (rather less for me actually) because of our specific industry, but that's not generally true.
- strictnein 2mo ago
  Not sure where you're getting that $43k number. The most up to date number is $65,052[0]. "Median weekly earnings of the nation's 120.9 million full-time wage and salary workers were $1,251 in the second quarter of 2026" https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
  - AlotOfReading 2mo ago
    Taken directly from ssa.gov: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html I suspect the difference is that "full-time wage and salary workers" is a much smaller group than "all workers". I admit that I used the word salary in the original post though.
fhdkweig 2mo ago
Not at Walmart. They want their employees to get on government assistance to justify paying them less. https://factually.co/fact-checks/business/walmart-workers-government-programs-most-used-d98bb3 https://factually.co/fact-checks/business/walmart-workers-go... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-...

Is that why wages in the US are double those in europe or more

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

deleted 2mo ago

[deleted]

autoexec 2mo ago

It's because the most massive costs an American has like healthcare, child care, and higher education are free or vastly less expensive in Europe. Americans spend all their time at work for a very impressive number on their paystub while they're still one accident or illness away from homelessness or bankruptcy. Europeans get higher quality of life/happiness scores and spend far less time slaving away for their boss. Just because the number on your paycheck is bigger, it doesn't mean you're winning.

cwbuilds 2mo ago
Not sure we do have better quality of life in Europe. We may have in the 2000s, but we're in decline relative to the US. Even if you take things like healthcare into account: US average disposable income is $51,000, while it's $32,000 in the UK (with higher rents in the UK than the US).
- autoexec 2mo ago
  The UK is still better a lot of ways but there's a reason it's called "the America of Europe"
  - cwbuilds 2mo ago
    Depends who you are. 16% of the UK is in absolute poverty (20% if you account for housing costs), while only 10% are in absolute poverty in the US. I'd rather be an American on an average salary paying for healthcare than in the UK on a much lower average salary. Property costs/rents are much higher and our public services like healthcare are crumbling (my dad nearly died in a hospital corridor because there were no beds left). I know that last bit is anecdotal, but it's a country-wide problem.
- alistairSH 2mo ago
  Citation? Median earnings is less than that. And median household income is only marginally more. the U.S. Census Bureau estimates that the median annual earnings for all workers (people aged 15 and over with earnings) was $51,370; and more specifically estimates that median annual earnings for those who worked full-time, year round, was $63,360. According to the CPS, the median household income was $70,784 in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...
  - cwbuilds 2mo ago
    That's income, not disposable income. It's also median, instead of mean. It's also wrong. Median income in the UK is £39,039 which is about $49,500.. You linked to the US Wikipedia page twice. OECD is the source for disposable income. US: https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countries/united-states/ https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countrie... UK: https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countries/united-kingdom/ https://oecd-better-life-index.truth-and-beauty.net/countrie...
    - alistairSH 2mo ago
      Yeah, OECD is saying the mean disposable income is the US is almost the same as median household income. Either some of the numbers are wrong, or your (OECD’s) use of mean is misleading… the mean of Bezos’ and my disposable incomes is a very large and mostly useless figure.
      - dragonwriter 2mo ago
        Mean personal disposable income being comparable to median household income isn't too surprising and doesn't necessarily indicate any error. Mean is much higher than median, individual is much lower than household, disposable is much lower than total. You are comparing numbers that are different in all three axes (in ways which do not point in the same direction), so really any relationship between them would be plausible without detailed knowledge of the exact distribution of all the relevant components.
strictnein 2mo ago
> higher education are free Many of the states[0] have started offering free or low cost tuition for their public community colleges and trade schools, and low cost tuition for their colleges and universities. For example, Minnesota offers tuition at a state college starting at $6k a year[0] and free tuition at community colleges if you're earning under $80k[1]. Those prices are before financial aid, grants, scholarships, etc which are widely available from multiple sources. [0] https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/states-with-free-tuition/ https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/states-with-free-tuition/ [1] https://www.minnstate.edu/admissions/affordability.html https://www.minnstate.edu/admissions/affordability.html [2] https://www.nhcc.edu/free-college-tuition-nhcc https://www.nhcc.edu/free-college-tuition-nhcc As for the rest of your comment, you have a very distorted of what life in the US is like. Also, nothing you list is "free" in Europe, there's just a lot of rather regressive taxes that are collected to pay for it all. The US federal tax structure is actually rather progressive, but that also means there's less money for the feds to pay for all of those "free" things.

ambicapter 2mo ago

What does that matter when cost of living is commensurately expensive?

AlotOfReading 2mo ago

The median salary in the US is $43k for the latest year I see data (2023). Median salary in the Netherlands and Germany was €44-48k or ~$50-55k. We might make half as much (rather less for me actually) because of our specific industry, but that's not generally true.

strictnein 2mo ago
Not sure where you're getting that $43k number. The most up to date number is $65,052[0]. "Median weekly earnings of the nation's 120.9 million full-time wage and salary workers were $1,251 in the second quarter of 2026" https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf
- AlotOfReading 2mo ago
  Taken directly from ssa.gov: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/COLA/central.html I suspect the difference is that "full-time wage and salary workers" is a much smaller group than "all workers". I admit that I used the word salary in the original post though.

fhdkweig 2mo ago

Not at Walmart. They want their employees to get on government assistance to justify paying them less. https://factually.co/fact-checks/business/walmart-workers-government-programs-most-used-d98bb3 https://factually.co/fact-checks/business/walmart-workers-go... https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-top-employers-of-medicaid-and-food-stamp-beneficiaries.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/19/walmart-and-mcdonalds-among-...