16 ms·

in the US it protects the corporations so they don't have to pay a living wage * https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2026/07/22/amazon-gig-companies-see-sp

by ck2 2mo ago

in the US it protects the corporations so they don't have to pay a living wage * https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2026/07/22/amazon-gig-companies-see-spike-workers-snap-medicaid-study-shows/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2026/07/22/amazon-gi...

amazingamazing 2mo ago
Given that you cannot force someone to hire anyone at a given wage what is the solution? At best all you can say is that if you decide to hire, it cannot be lower than some minimum, but often this results in no job at all.
- ben_w 2mo ago
  While true when minimum is set too high, the level it is set to generally takes this into account so that "too high" is not reached over the entire jobs market.
- autoexec 2mo ago
  > At best all you can say is that if you decide to hire, it cannot be lower than some minimum That's pretty reasonable. Nobody should be working 40 hours a week at a job and not make enough to support themselves. Any company who can't afford to pay their employees at least that much is a failure who deserves to be out of business.
  - SubmarineClub 2mo ago
    > Nobody should be working 40 hours a week at a job and not make enough to support themselves. So it’s better that they don’t get hired at all and live entirely off support of the (forced) largesse of the tax payer? As one of those tax payers I’d much rather they work and earn at least something.
    - autoexec 2mo ago
      That's a false dichotomy. Those workers can get hired by a competent business who can afford to pay a living wage and doesn't need the government to subsidize their labor expenses.
- ifwinterco 2mo ago
  This is what happened in the UK but not immediately, it’s only in the current government where the minimum wage (especially for young people) got hiked massively in the context of a weak overall economy that the effect on job creation became obvious. Now it’s quite bad though, a whole generation of 16-20 year olds entering the job market and there’s just no jobs because you can hire a 30 year old for the same money
- johnvanommen 2mo ago
  > Given that you cannot force someone to hire anyone at a given wage what is the solution? The author writes for Jacobin, which promotes a failed ideology where you CAN force people to “hire anyone at a given wage.” It’s an advertisement for a failed ideology.
- WarmWash 2mo ago
  The actual problem in the US is housing costs, but most people are around social media knowledge level in this area, and just blame the first thing in front of them. Raising wages will do nothing to ease housing costs, which eat the largest chunk of everyone's pay.
  - marcuskane2 2mo ago
    It's particularly sad that we just proved this with the massive Covid-era stimulus and yet didn't collectively learn the lesson. We gave millions of people unemployment checks that were larger than their actual income had been, gave low and mid income workers stimulus checks, gave business owners forgivable debt for payroll and a year later we didn't have increased quality of life, we just had fast-food that cost twice as much, apartments that cost 50% more and billions of dollars spent on gambling, crypto and meme stock option trading.
    - jimaway123 2mo ago
      There is a good proportion of the planet that will look at that and say "well we just needed to write bigger checks."
  - shinjitsu 2mo ago
    I think also the ridiculous nature of the automobile market is a significant secondary problem in the US. When the median new vehicle is $49000 and the median annual salary (pretax) is ~$65,000 that isn't sustainable.
  - mono442 2mo ago
    It's not even that bad in the US. Houses are still more affordable than in Europe or Canada.
- michael1999 2mo ago
  Your "often" is not borne out by actual econometric studies. The actual rate of minimum wage that produces dead-weight loss is much higher than most minimum wages in the USA. In any market, there is wide range of possible clearing prices with cost of production as a floor, and marginal value as a ceiling. Which price the market settles on is often a function of bargaining power as much as productivity. Minimum wage regulation is a heavy-handed way to change that bargaining relationship.
  - amazingamazing 2mo ago
    Hmm? Outsourcing is the clear counter example. Or do you think it is a coincidence that no outsourced job is more expensive than hiring Americans.
    - michael1999 2mo ago
      I don't see how that is relevant. I am not aware of any outsourced job where the American alternative would cost anything near the minimum wage. The overhead of outsourcing and supervision would dwarf the raw basic labour cost of the $7.25 federal minimum. I don't dispute that it would be easy to raise the minimum wage high enough to destroy jobs. But I do dispute that the current minimum wage is "often" high enough to do that. https://www.indeed.com/career/call-center-representative/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/call-center-representative/sal...
- dlcarrier 2mo ago
  It's just like housing regulations. Someone might try to build a shack with power outlets more than 12 feet apart, and we can't permit that, so they're better off homeless.
3748949494 2mo ago
Is that why wages in the US are double those in europe or more
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 2mo ago
  [deleted]
- autoexec 2mo ago
  It's because the most massive costs an American has like healthcare, child care, and higher education are free or vastly less expensive in Europe. Americans spend all their time at work for a very impressive number on their paystub while they're still one accident or illness away from homelessness or bankruptcy. Europeans get higher quality of life/happiness scores and spend far less time slaving away for their boss. Just because the number on your paycheck is bigger, it doesn't mean you're winning.
  - cwbuilds 2mo ago
    Not sure we do have better quality of life in Europe. We may have in the 2000s, but we're in decline relative to the US. Even if you take things like healthcare into account: US average disposable income is $51,000, while it's $32,000 in the UK (with higher rents in the UK than the US).
    - autoexec 2mo ago
      The UK is still better a lot of ways but there's a reason it's called "the America of Europe"
      - cwbuilds 2mo ago
        Depends who you are. 16% of the UK is in absolute poverty (20% if you account for housing costs), while only 10% are in absolute poverty in the US. I'd rather be an American on an average salary paying for healthcare than in the UK on a much lower average salary. Property costs/rents are much higher and our public services like healthcare are crumbling (my dad nearly died in a hospital corridor because there were no beds left). I know that last bit is anecdotal, but it's a country-wide problem.
irishcoffee 2mo ago
It seems a little bit cherry-picked that you selected an article about people on food stamps and federal aid during a global pandemic, which saw absolutely massive amounts of people lose their jobs. Doesn’t feel objective.

by ck2 2mo ago

amazingamazing 2mo ago

Given that you cannot force someone to hire anyone at a given wage what is the solution? At best all you can say is that if you decide to hire, it cannot be lower than some minimum, but often this results in no job at all.

ben_w 2mo ago
While true when minimum is set too high, the level it is set to generally takes this into account so that "too high" is not reached over the entire jobs market.
autoexec 2mo ago
> At best all you can say is that if you decide to hire, it cannot be lower than some minimum That's pretty reasonable. Nobody should be working 40 hours a week at a job and not make enough to support themselves. Any company who can't afford to pay their employees at least that much is a failure who deserves to be out of business.
- SubmarineClub 2mo ago
  > Nobody should be working 40 hours a week at a job and not make enough to support themselves. So it’s better that they don’t get hired at all and live entirely off support of the (forced) largesse of the tax payer? As one of those tax payers I’d much rather they work and earn at least something.
  - autoexec 2mo ago
    That's a false dichotomy. Those workers can get hired by a competent business who can afford to pay a living wage and doesn't need the government to subsidize their labor expenses.
ifwinterco 2mo ago
This is what happened in the UK but not immediately, it’s only in the current government where the minimum wage (especially for young people) got hiked massively in the context of a weak overall economy that the effect on job creation became obvious. Now it’s quite bad though, a whole generation of 16-20 year olds entering the job market and there’s just no jobs because you can hire a 30 year old for the same money
johnvanommen 2mo ago
> Given that you cannot force someone to hire anyone at a given wage what is the solution? The author writes for Jacobin, which promotes a failed ideology where you CAN force people to “hire anyone at a given wage.” It’s an advertisement for a failed ideology.
WarmWash 2mo ago
The actual problem in the US is housing costs, but most people are around social media knowledge level in this area, and just blame the first thing in front of them. Raising wages will do nothing to ease housing costs, which eat the largest chunk of everyone's pay.
- marcuskane2 2mo ago
  It's particularly sad that we just proved this with the massive Covid-era stimulus and yet didn't collectively learn the lesson. We gave millions of people unemployment checks that were larger than their actual income had been, gave low and mid income workers stimulus checks, gave business owners forgivable debt for payroll and a year later we didn't have increased quality of life, we just had fast-food that cost twice as much, apartments that cost 50% more and billions of dollars spent on gambling, crypto and meme stock option trading.
  - jimaway123 2mo ago
    There is a good proportion of the planet that will look at that and say "well we just needed to write bigger checks."
- shinjitsu 2mo ago
  I think also the ridiculous nature of the automobile market is a significant secondary problem in the US. When the median new vehicle is $49000 and the median annual salary (pretax) is ~$65,000 that isn't sustainable.
- mono442 2mo ago
  It's not even that bad in the US. Houses are still more affordable than in Europe or Canada.
michael1999 2mo ago
Your "often" is not borne out by actual econometric studies. The actual rate of minimum wage that produces dead-weight loss is much higher than most minimum wages in the USA. In any market, there is wide range of possible clearing prices with cost of production as a floor, and marginal value as a ceiling. Which price the market settles on is often a function of bargaining power as much as productivity. Minimum wage regulation is a heavy-handed way to change that bargaining relationship.
- amazingamazing 2mo ago
  Hmm? Outsourcing is the clear counter example. Or do you think it is a coincidence that no outsourced job is more expensive than hiring Americans.
  - michael1999 2mo ago
    I don't see how that is relevant. I am not aware of any outsourced job where the American alternative would cost anything near the minimum wage. The overhead of outsourcing and supervision would dwarf the raw basic labour cost of the $7.25 federal minimum. I don't dispute that it would be easy to raise the minimum wage high enough to destroy jobs. But I do dispute that the current minimum wage is "often" high enough to do that. https://www.indeed.com/career/call-center-representative/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/call-center-representative/sal...
dlcarrier 2mo ago
It's just like housing regulations. Someone might try to build a shack with power outlets more than 12 feet apart, and we can't permit that, so they're better off homeless.

3748949494 2mo ago

Is that why wages in the US are double those in europe or more

deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
deleted 2mo ago
[deleted]
autoexec 2mo ago
It's because the most massive costs an American has like healthcare, child care, and higher education are free or vastly less expensive in Europe. Americans spend all their time at work for a very impressive number on their paystub while they're still one accident or illness away from homelessness or bankruptcy. Europeans get higher quality of life/happiness scores and spend far less time slaving away for their boss. Just because the number on your paycheck is bigger, it doesn't mean you're winning.
- cwbuilds 2mo ago
  Not sure we do have better quality of life in Europe. We may have in the 2000s, but we're in decline relative to the US. Even if you take things like healthcare into account: US average disposable income is $51,000, while it's $32,000 in the UK (with higher rents in the UK than the US).
  - autoexec 2mo ago
    The UK is still better a lot of ways but there's a reason it's called "the America of Europe"
    - cwbuilds 2mo ago
      Depends who you are. 16% of the UK is in absolute poverty (20% if you account for housing costs), while only 10% are in absolute poverty in the US. I'd rather be an American on an average salary paying for healthcare than in the UK on a much lower average salary. Property costs/rents are much higher and our public services like healthcare are crumbling (my dad nearly died in a hospital corridor because there were no beds left). I know that last bit is anecdotal, but it's a country-wide problem.

irishcoffee 2mo ago

It seems a little bit cherry-picked that you selected an article about people on food stamps and federal aid during a global pandemic, which saw absolutely massive amounts of people lose their jobs. Doesn’t feel objective.