2 ms·

Here ethnic cuisine more or less means regional cuisine, where the region is outside of the speaker's own cultural identity. It goes beyond national, which is v

Here ethnic cuisine more or less means regional cuisine, where the region is outside of the speaker's own cultural identity. It goes beyond national, which is very broad. Therefore I think it's a fairly useful descriptor. For example Oaxacan and TexMex are ethnically Mexican, but seen as regional within their borders by the respective nations. There's deeper indigenous roots there too. Food traditions of the Jewish diaspora can't be said to be Israeli cuisine. Things that start as regionally unique become seen as ethnic over time: I dunno like rocky mountain oysters, fish and chips, buffalo wings, as they become more intertwined with the culture of those people and that culture is exported. Ethnicity was coined to avoid the racial connotations but in the US, ethnic studies brought it right back. If one wishes to avoid the word here maybe cultural is probably the best substitute but still a bit too narrow. You'll also see Global/International/Continental/Intercontinental as well, much like in music.. but I think that misses the point too.

vector_spaces 2mo ago
Too bad. I considered pre-empting this exact response, and I did not, so here we are! The term "national" doesn't simply mean "having to do with a nation state". I promise that I do not mean to be condescending with this, but you can verify in Merriam-Webster's entry for "nationality" which is referenced by the entry for "national", or also the Wikipedia article on "national cuisine". The Merriam-Webster entries specifically give examples showing that my usage encompasses the examples you gave. The terms "ethnicity" and "ethnic" are not problematic per se. There are a few reasons people object to usages such as "ethnic cuisine", one of which I mentioned in the comment you are replying to.
- goosejuice 2mo ago
  It mostly does, yes. Nation is political. National cuisine and the claim of certain dishes, if official, are driven by government. See gastronationalism. You won't find Persian national cuisine. Iran however, yes, and it's mostly ethnically Persian. You'll find food traditions of other ethnic groups in Iran as well that aren't Persian. Iranian cuisine encompasses all of that within a political border.
  - vector_spaces 2mo ago
    I think you are conflating senses of the word, or rather you are defaulting to a very specific usage. There's the usage "Iranian national cuisine" which as you say is inherently political in nature because we mean "nation" in a civic and territorial sense, subsuming e.g. Persian, Azeri, Kurd cuisines, among others. There may be objections to specific inclusions or exclusions as we are considering Iran as a civic and political entity with borders, as you say But it's perfectly fine to refer to "Kurdish national cuisine" or Persian national cuisine or Azeri national cuisine even in the absence of any nation state. So I'm using the term in an ethnocultural sense, not in the sense of something sanctioned by a nation state or a political entity. See also black nationalism or Kurdish nationalism -- no state is required here. You have political mobilisation around an ethnocultural designation rather than a government
    - goosejuice 2mo ago
      See gastronationalism. It's not "a very specific usage." Black and Kurdish nationalism are political movements. You're welcome to say Persian national cuisine, but that can be interpreted in a number of ways. I wouldn't advise it. Anyway. My point is that ethnic cuisine is not easily replaced by another term.

vector_spaces 2mo ago

Too bad. I considered pre-empting this exact response, and I did not, so here we are! The term "national" doesn't simply mean "having to do with a nation state". I promise that I do not mean to be condescending with this, but you can verify in Merriam-Webster's entry for "nationality" which is referenced by the entry for "national", or also the Wikipedia article on "national cuisine". The Merriam-Webster entries specifically give examples showing that my usage encompasses the examples you gave. The terms "ethnicity" and "ethnic" are not problematic per se. There are a few reasons people object to usages such as "ethnic cuisine", one of which I mentioned in the comment you are replying to.

goosejuice 2mo ago
It mostly does, yes. Nation is political. National cuisine and the claim of certain dishes, if official, are driven by government. See gastronationalism. You won't find Persian national cuisine. Iran however, yes, and it's mostly ethnically Persian. You'll find food traditions of other ethnic groups in Iran as well that aren't Persian. Iranian cuisine encompasses all of that within a political border.
- vector_spaces 2mo ago
  I think you are conflating senses of the word, or rather you are defaulting to a very specific usage. There's the usage "Iranian national cuisine" which as you say is inherently political in nature because we mean "nation" in a civic and territorial sense, subsuming e.g. Persian, Azeri, Kurd cuisines, among others. There may be objections to specific inclusions or exclusions as we are considering Iran as a civic and political entity with borders, as you say But it's perfectly fine to refer to "Kurdish national cuisine" or Persian national cuisine or Azeri national cuisine even in the absence of any nation state. So I'm using the term in an ethnocultural sense, not in the sense of something sanctioned by a nation state or a political entity. See also black nationalism or Kurdish nationalism -- no state is required here. You have political mobilisation around an ethnocultural designation rather than a government
  - goosejuice 2mo ago
    See gastronationalism. It's not "a very specific usage." Black and Kurdish nationalism are political movements. You're welcome to say Persian national cuisine, but that can be interpreted in a number of ways. I wouldn't advise it. Anyway. My point is that ethnic cuisine is not easily replaced by another term.