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And yet, Rome borrowed from far more than the Greeks. Norse deities are popular, and seemingly more recognizable than classical Greek myth to those in North Ame
by GolfPopper 2mo ago
And yet, Rome borrowed from far more than the Greeks. Norse deities are popular, and seemingly more recognizable than classical Greek myth to those in North America with whom I've spoke about such things. Rome was taken over by a particular flavor of Christianity, which was changed by the Empire at least as much as it changed the Empire, and changed more by those who claimed it. (Christmas and Easter are not originally Christian holidays.) "Protestant" now, means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. The Renaissance was significantly tied to the Muslim world's own traditions of Civilization, and a major thrust of contemporary politics is that the Enlightenment was not a positive thing. And hardly anyone is a farmer anymore, even though that's what 90% of Western Civilization was until the last century or so. So yes, all of those influence any definition of Western Civilization, but they're neither some direct line of succession, nor a list of the most massive influences - they're a selection of popular nodes in a vast web of connections.
- lstodd 2mo ago> and a major thrust of contemporary politics is that the Enlightenment was not a positive thing. whoa, that's news to me. can you elaborate?
- toyg 2mo agoIn a neo-oligarchic world, beheading rich aristocrats is a big no-no. Also, glorifying reason has become very unpopular in a cultural context increasingly built around fairy tales (from Lord of the Rings to superheroes). And of course, the neo-racist movements see egalité as a terrible, terrible thing.
- hollerith 2mo agoToday I learned that some historians include the French Revolution in the Enlightenment. Here is the intro to the Wikipedia article: >European historians traditionally dated its beginning with the death of Louis XIV of France in 1715 and its end with the outbreak of the French Revolution in 1789. Many historians now date the end of the Enlightenment as the start of the 19th century, with the latest proposed year being the death of Immanuel Kant in 1804.
- toyg 2mo agoThat's just a convenient technicality for historians. From wikipedia: "Most scholars use the last years of the century, often choosing the French Revolution or the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars (1804) as a convenient point in time with which to date the end of the Enlightenment." The French Revolution is deeply grounded in Enlightenment principles.
- hollerith 2mo agoFor admirers of the Enlightenment, it's more than just a convenient technicality to want to avoid including in the Enlightenment a period a political chaos during which about a million people were arrested and about 30-50,000 were killed -- most with very little in the way of due-process rights.
- toyg 2mo agoTo quote an Italian meme, "yes, but they also did a few bad things".
- GolfPopper 2mo ago"The conservatives who want to undo the Enlightenment"[1] And from Wikipedia[2], "The Dark Enlightenment, also called the Neo-Reactionary movement (abbreviated to NRx), is an anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, and reactionary philosophical and political movement. It can be understood as a reaction against values and ideologies associated with Enlightenment, advocating for a return to traditional societal constructs and forms of government, such as absolute monarchism and cameralism." United States Vice-President J.D. Vance reached political prominence largely via the support of prominent anti-Enlightenment conservative Rod Dreher. [3] 1. https://archive.is/9AFzR#selection-439.0-439.52 https://archive.is/9AFzR#selection-439.0-439.52 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment#Influence_in_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment#Influence_i... 3. https://archive.is/8KyJF https://archive.is/8KyJF