3 ms·

At least in retro spaces there's a lot of rejection of using AI to do things. Half-Life (and the later Source engine games such as Half-Life 2 and Portal) were

At least in retro spaces there's a lot of rejection of using AI to do things. Half-Life (and the later Source engine games such as Half-Life 2 and Portal) were ported without LLM assistance however (Source: I am in the Discord where the developer has been working and diligently posting updates on the project)

CamperBob2 2mo ago
(Removed inaccurate remark, or rather, removed my reply to an inaccurate remark)
- hoten 2mo ago
  "unsustainable" is an odd word to use for a hobby. They aren't trying to hit productivity goals. Maybe they just still like programming.
  - CamperBob2 2mo ago
    I do, too, but I'm feeling increasingly awkward doing it by hand. NGL, it's not an altogether-comfortable feeling. At least not yet.
- CursedSilicon 2mo ago
  What a bizarre take Many people refuse to use LLM's for various reasons that I don't need to rehash here
  - CamperBob2 2mo ago
    "Bizarre" is rejecting powerful tools on ... what, religious grounds? It would be one thing if we were talking woodworking or pottery or another skilled craft, where your personal growth of talent with experience is evident in the product, resulting in something you can look back on fondly and point to with pride. But moving some legacy code (which you didn't write) from one platform to another? What do you get out of doing that by hand?
    - CursedSilicon 2mo ago
      You seem either deliberately or functionally unable to grasp the premise of why anyone would do this (or reject LLM's) I suggest instead you go read up on why people dislike them and gain a more well-rounded and nuanced understanding of the topic
      - CamperBob2 2mo ago
        And you seem to be operating on a faulty premise (as was I.)
        ChoGGi 2mo ago
        "Use it or lose it"?
        CamperBob2 2mo ago
        It's an interesting dilemma. I can tell that I will soon start to lose hard-won programming skills to muscle atrophy, just because of how seductive the power of telling an LLM "Deal with this" is becoming. But what I'm gaining in exchange is the ability to get more stuff done, which (to me) is what it's all about. It doesn't matter whether it's a hobby or professional project: when I start something, there's always a goal or result in mind, and whatever tools get me to that result are going to get used. I'm not completely unsympathetic to the OP's point of view, though, where the journey itself is all the reward they are seeking. That's one reason why I deleted the comment, as it came across as more negative and critical than I intended.
    - deleted 2mo ago
      [deleted]
- yowzadave 2mo ago
  I recommend you approach life in a spirit of curiosity—it can be interesting to learn about the different interests and motivations of other people!
- srp-shay 2mo ago
  Hi there, I'm the developer of this port. I did use AI to assist me in development and I'm not shy about admitting that. This was still a hands-on effort that took well over 40 hours of development time spread over a couple months. Much like other development tools, AI certainly sped up my development process and allowed to ship something in a couple of months using my free time. AI is a tool and it isn't going anywhere, I've posted my thoughts about AI extensively in the PowerPC community. I don't proactively volunteer or plaster my readmes with notes about AI because it doesn't really matter. Speaking for me personally I have no problem using tools in my toolbelt to solve problems faster in my limited free time.
userbinator 2mo ago
At least in retro spaces there's a lot of rejection of using AI to do things. I suspect the community will fracture, and then once the pro-AI side shows off more and more of the amazing things they accomplished, they'll grow while the anti-AI side will eventually dry up into a few luddites. I'm old enough to have been on the anti-HLL side when I was handwriting Asm for the PC, but of course HLLs took over because they're "good enough" and became a massive force multiplier.
- anthk 2mo ago
  A compiler and a assembler are predictable enough. An LLM will never be reproducible. Period. LLM base d AI's are doomed from the start.
  - CamperBob2 2mo ago
    You hate to see that kind of ignorance at this level of play. Wouldn't such sentiments be better expressed elsewhere, on sites not populated by users who are actively doing what you say can't or shouldn't be done?
    - anthk 2mo ago
      Think whatever you want. Unless you are Donald Knuth level educated, you can't be 100% sure.
- asiekierka 2mo ago
  I think it is more likely that the "amazing" things, as described, will become mundane, thus shifting the definition of what becomes interesting or noteworthy. Even then, I believe people who continue to write by hand will still be appreciated, given this is fundamentally a hobbyist space. One good example is nocash, who continues to write all of his Windows-targetting emulators in hand-rolled assembly to this very day. For a long time, some of his emulators - most notably NO$GBA - were at the forefront of popularity among homebrew developers due to their unmatched debugging tools; even though one could make them much faster with an HLL, nobody really stepped up to the task. Even now, his work remains relevant thanks to the extensive documentation he maintained alongside the emulators he developed.
turpentine 2mo ago
Yet the dev has posted here on HN saying they used LLMs to do the port, but have a preference not to communicate their AI use.
Jackknife9 2mo ago
Yeah, I’ve definitely seen this sentiment in the retro tech community. I think hobbiests do not have that much free time to create these tools for retro computers. AI is a great tool for this, as it saves time so people can make projects that would otherwise not exist. I remember arguing with someone on Reddit who said they’d rather not have the tool if it was made by AI, which I thought was a crazy take.
pelasaco 2mo ago
looks like the Author is saying something different https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49092906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49092906 (He did use LLM Assistance)
ChrisRR 2mo ago
It's the same as every community now. There's a bunch of people endlessly complaining about AI, and there's people using it to create projects that didn't exist before The fact of the matter is people are going to keep using AI to create projects no matter how much the others complain about it, so I fall on the side of enjoying these new-old retro projects

CamperBob2 2mo ago

(Removed inaccurate remark, or rather, removed my reply to an inaccurate remark)

hoten 2mo ago
"unsustainable" is an odd word to use for a hobby. They aren't trying to hit productivity goals. Maybe they just still like programming.
- CamperBob2 2mo ago
  I do, too, but I'm feeling increasingly awkward doing it by hand. NGL, it's not an altogether-comfortable feeling. At least not yet.
CursedSilicon 2mo ago
What a bizarre take Many people refuse to use LLM's for various reasons that I don't need to rehash here
- CamperBob2 2mo ago
  "Bizarre" is rejecting powerful tools on ... what, religious grounds? It would be one thing if we were talking woodworking or pottery or another skilled craft, where your personal growth of talent with experience is evident in the product, resulting in something you can look back on fondly and point to with pride. But moving some legacy code (which you didn't write) from one platform to another? What do you get out of doing that by hand?
  - CursedSilicon 2mo ago
    You seem either deliberately or functionally unable to grasp the premise of why anyone would do this (or reject LLM's) I suggest instead you go read up on why people dislike them and gain a more well-rounded and nuanced understanding of the topic
    - CamperBob2 2mo ago
      And you seem to be operating on a faulty premise (as was I.)
      - ChoGGi 2mo ago
        "Use it or lose it"?
        CamperBob2 2mo ago
        It's an interesting dilemma. I can tell that I will soon start to lose hard-won programming skills to muscle atrophy, just because of how seductive the power of telling an LLM "Deal with this" is becoming. But what I'm gaining in exchange is the ability to get more stuff done, which (to me) is what it's all about. It doesn't matter whether it's a hobby or professional project: when I start something, there's always a goal or result in mind, and whatever tools get me to that result are going to get used. I'm not completely unsympathetic to the OP's point of view, though, where the journey itself is all the reward they are seeking. That's one reason why I deleted the comment, as it came across as more negative and critical than I intended.
  - deleted 2mo ago
    [deleted]
yowzadave 2mo ago
I recommend you approach life in a spirit of curiosity—it can be interesting to learn about the different interests and motivations of other people!
srp-shay 2mo ago
Hi there, I'm the developer of this port. I did use AI to assist me in development and I'm not shy about admitting that. This was still a hands-on effort that took well over 40 hours of development time spread over a couple months. Much like other development tools, AI certainly sped up my development process and allowed to ship something in a couple of months using my free time. AI is a tool and it isn't going anywhere, I've posted my thoughts about AI extensively in the PowerPC community. I don't proactively volunteer or plaster my readmes with notes about AI because it doesn't really matter. Speaking for me personally I have no problem using tools in my toolbelt to solve problems faster in my limited free time.

userbinator 2mo ago

At least in retro spaces there's a lot of rejection of using AI to do things. I suspect the community will fracture, and then once the pro-AI side shows off more and more of the amazing things they accomplished, they'll grow while the anti-AI side will eventually dry up into a few luddites. I'm old enough to have been on the anti-HLL side when I was handwriting Asm for the PC, but of course HLLs took over because they're "good enough" and became a massive force multiplier.

anthk 2mo ago
A compiler and a assembler are predictable enough. An LLM will never be reproducible. Period. LLM base d AI's are doomed from the start.
- CamperBob2 2mo ago
  You hate to see that kind of ignorance at this level of play. Wouldn't such sentiments be better expressed elsewhere, on sites not populated by users who are actively doing what you say can't or shouldn't be done?
  - anthk 2mo ago
    Think whatever you want. Unless you are Donald Knuth level educated, you can't be 100% sure.
asiekierka 2mo ago
I think it is more likely that the "amazing" things, as described, will become mundane, thus shifting the definition of what becomes interesting or noteworthy. Even then, I believe people who continue to write by hand will still be appreciated, given this is fundamentally a hobbyist space. One good example is nocash, who continues to write all of his Windows-targetting emulators in hand-rolled assembly to this very day. For a long time, some of his emulators - most notably NO$GBA - were at the forefront of popularity among homebrew developers due to their unmatched debugging tools; even though one could make them much faster with an HLL, nobody really stepped up to the task. Even now, his work remains relevant thanks to the extensive documentation he maintained alongside the emulators he developed.

turpentine 2mo ago

Yet the dev has posted here on HN saying they used LLMs to do the port, but have a preference not to communicate their AI use.

Jackknife9 2mo ago

Yeah, I’ve definitely seen this sentiment in the retro tech community. I think hobbiests do not have that much free time to create these tools for retro computers. AI is a great tool for this, as it saves time so people can make projects that would otherwise not exist. I remember arguing with someone on Reddit who said they’d rather not have the tool if it was made by AI, which I thought was a crazy take.

pelasaco 2mo ago

looks like the Author is saying something different https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49092906 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49092906 (He did use LLM Assistance)

ChrisRR 2mo ago

It's the same as every community now. There's a bunch of people endlessly complaining about AI, and there's people using it to create projects that didn't exist before The fact of the matter is people are going to keep using AI to create projects no matter how much the others complain about it, so I fall on the side of enjoying these new-old retro projects