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OT, but I've seen this come up before and I wonder if HN could explain/justify this grammatical curiosity: > "A gang were accused of selling weapons..." "A ga

OT, but I've seen this come up before and I wonder if HN could explain/justify this grammatical curiosity: > "A gang were accused of selling weapons..." "A gang" implies a singular entity (gang), but "were" is a pluralized use of was, as if "gang" was plural (as in, 'several gangs'). (I lack the vocabulary to properly articulate myself, since grammar is not my strong suit. I am probably not describing terms completely accurately). I've noticed this more and more in regard to singular forms of entities (typically compromised of many singular parts, such as corporations). For example: "Apple were..." or "Google have..." or "Microsoft are..." I notice that this seems to be more of a British English phenomenon. My question is this: Why are people using what I will call pluralized modifiers on what I would consider singular nouns? What I would consider the "more correct" forms of the above examples are: "The designers at Apple were..." or "Google's board of directors have..." or "Employees of Microsoft are..." Is this just a cultural clash between American and British grammatical conventions, or is there an elusive (to me) practical reason why one version is "better" than the other? I apologize for thread jacking. Hopefully the more relevant comments will rise above this one.

tricolon 14y ago
The American convention is simple: stick to the singular. British English convention can be more complex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_collective_meaning_treated_as_plural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_c...
rcsorensen 14y ago
It's just a cultural clash. A number of words like army, company, crowd, fleet, government, majority, mess, number, pack, and party may refer either to a single entity or the members of the set composing it. If the latter meaning is intended, the word (though singular in form) may be treated as if it were a plural, in that it may take a plural verb and be replaced with a plural pronoun: the government are considering their position (alternatively the government is considering its position). See synesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_collective_meaning_treated_as_plural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_c...
pdw 14y ago
It's a quirk of British English. Collective nouns are often treated as if they were plural. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_British_English#Formal_and_notional_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_Brit...
- glaugh 14y ago
  As an American English speaker I find it delightful to read or hear occasionally. For me it's a nice, occasional reminder that groups are made up of individuals.
  - alexkus 14y ago
    As a Brit who has lived in the US for a couple of years on and off it gets very confusing. I can never remember which spelling is correct for the current situation for some terms: centre/center, tire/tyre, singular or plural collective nouns, etc. I know there are two variants, I just can't remember which one is the US one and which is the UK one; stuff like colour/color is easy, as is when to use sneakers/trainers (only made that mistake once) but some words play tricks on me.
    - delinka 14y ago
      Meh. Just be British and don't worry about it! ;-)
mcobrien 14y ago
You're right: this is a British English construct and presumably allowed by the BBC style guide. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#section_2 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#section_2
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Gang is plural, so in the King's English 'a gang were accused' and of birds 'a flock were flying' I've noticed that in various US sources a 'gang' is singular even though it is composed of many individuals, sort of like a corporation is a singular noun reflecting a collection of possibly many people. One of the things that makes English fun.
- flyinRyan 14y ago
  No, the word "Gang" is singular, not plural. That's why you're saying "A gang". You don't say "A ducks".
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    Except when you say "B and C walk into a bar. A ducks."
mhlakhani 14y ago
In "British" English, a collective entity (such as a gang, or a company) is generally referred to using pluralized modifiers. It's a cultural clash, there's no practical reason behind it.
eze 14y ago
"Why are people using what I will call pluralized modifiers on what I would consider singular nouns?" English isn't my native language, but I feel British usage is consistent with the way the word "people" is treated on both sides of the pond.
Mordor 14y ago
I've always thought of it like this, saying "a gang" is an abbreviation for "a gang of criminals" and then the plural relates to the "criminals".
- jongraehl 14y ago
  Which is why you say "A pack of cigarettes *cost $5"? :) (should be "costs" in us-en, of course)
zacharyvoase 14y ago
I like to consider it a British penchant for piercing the corporate veil and de-reifying the collective.

tricolon 14y ago

The American convention is simple: stick to the singular. British English convention can be more complex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_collective_meaning_treated_as_plural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_c...

rcsorensen 14y ago

It's just a cultural clash. A number of words like army, company, crowd, fleet, government, majority, mess, number, pack, and party may refer either to a single entity or the members of the set composing it. If the latter meaning is intended, the word (though singular in form) may be treated as if it were a plural, in that it may take a plural verb and be replaced with a plural pronoun: the government are considering their position (alternatively the government is considering its position). See synesis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_collective_meaning_treated_as_plural http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_plural#Singulars_with_c...

pdw 14y ago

It's a quirk of British English. Collective nouns are often treated as if they were plural. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_British_English#Formal_and_notional_agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_American_and_Brit...

glaugh 14y ago
As an American English speaker I find it delightful to read or hear occasionally. For me it's a nice, occasional reminder that groups are made up of individuals.
- alexkus 14y ago
  As a Brit who has lived in the US for a couple of years on and off it gets very confusing. I can never remember which spelling is correct for the current situation for some terms: centre/center, tire/tyre, singular or plural collective nouns, etc. I know there are two variants, I just can't remember which one is the US one and which is the UK one; stuff like colour/color is easy, as is when to use sneakers/trainers (only made that mistake once) but some words play tricks on me.
  - delinka 14y ago
    Meh. Just be British and don't worry about it! ;-)

mcobrien 14y ago

You're right: this is a British English construct and presumably allowed by the BBC style guide. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#section_2 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_noun#section_2

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Gang is plural, so in the King's English 'a gang were accused' and of birds 'a flock were flying' I've noticed that in various US sources a 'gang' is singular even though it is composed of many individuals, sort of like a corporation is a singular noun reflecting a collection of possibly many people. One of the things that makes English fun.

flyinRyan 14y ago
No, the word "Gang" is singular, not plural. That's why you're saying "A gang". You don't say "A ducks".
- tripzilch 14y ago
  Except when you say "B and C walk into a bar. A ducks."

mhlakhani 14y ago

In "British" English, a collective entity (such as a gang, or a company) is generally referred to using pluralized modifiers. It's a cultural clash, there's no practical reason behind it.

eze 14y ago

"Why are people using what I will call pluralized modifiers on what I would consider singular nouns?" English isn't my native language, but I feel British usage is consistent with the way the word "people" is treated on both sides of the pond.

Mordor 14y ago

I've always thought of it like this, saying "a gang" is an abbreviation for "a gang of criminals" and then the plural relates to the "criminals".

jongraehl 14y ago
Which is why you say "A pack of cigarettes *cost $5"? :) (should be "costs" in us-en, of course)

zacharyvoase 14y ago

I like to consider it a British penchant for piercing the corporate veil and de-reifying the collective.