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you overestimate the financial health of most Americans. most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean

by dzonga 3mo ago

you overestimate the financial health of most Americans. most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population.

gruez 3mo ago
>when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population. That's not really applicable because: 1. the study is for an "unexpected" expense. This you can see from 2 years away 2. The wording in the study was something along the lines of "would have to dip into savings", not that they literally don't have any money for it. The fed's survey of consumer finances shows the median household has between 7-13k (depending whether you're counting median income or median wealth) in their checking accounts https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Transaction_Accounts;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022 https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...
- paxys 3mo ago
  Not sure what you are trying to argue. Should people be more financially responsible? Yes Are they today? No In a rational world payday loans, predatory auto loans, BNPL, perpetually rolling credit card debt etc would not need to exist. Yet these sectors are rapidly growing and companies in it are thriving.
  - gruez 3mo ago
    >Not sure what you are trying to argue. I'm saying the specific claim of "most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population" is false.
Zambyte 3mo ago
There are phones that cost a lot less though. 50% of Americans being unable to afford iPhones doesn't mean they should just lease them. People need to stop associating so much personal sense of worth with their handheld computer. - written on my S10
- oniony 3mo ago
  Crazy you had such a pertinent message written on your S10.
- Danox 3mo ago
  For many that is their only computer in that context having a smartphone definitely isn’t a bad thing. What’s bad is not saving up to buy it. Do not buy it on credit if you don’t have to, however, it must be said that if you get an iPhone, it does have better resale value (all Apple computers, and iPads) have a longer lifespan software wise, probably more than most other smartphones, which comes back to the question why are you renting or leasing? Just buy it on time with minimum interest upfront if you absolutely must buy it? Owner of an 11 Pro iPhone from 2019. With one or two years of Apple software support left?
- blackqueeriroh 3mo ago
  > People need to stop associating so much personal sense of worth with their handheld computer. This might be the funniest thing I’ve ever read on this nerd website.
  - harvey9 3mo ago
    A lot of people buy phones as conventional status symbols rather than for nerd points. My massive generalisation is hn values doing something interesting with the hardware.
    - Zambyte 3mo ago
      Exactly. I'm talking about the green bubble vs blue bubble social nonsense that causes people to spend >$1k on a device that they use for talk, text, and basic media functions. It's essentially jewelry, nothing to do with nerddom.
Aurornis 3mo ago
The median US household has a net worth of $200,000. Even a 50th percentile US household is very wealthy by global standards. Credit card statistics are heavily manipulated because it's easy to make them sound terrible. I don't know which factoid specifically you're referring to, but the studies about "X percent of Americans couldn't handle an emergency expense without putting it on a credit card" often use tricks like including anyone who would pay by credit card if they could. I remember reading some of these studies and realizing that I would have been included in the statistic because I prefer to use a credit card where I can, even though I pay it off before interest accrues.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
- cronin101 3mo ago
  Net worth or net income? Being 40yo with only 200k of worth between two when you’re halfway through your working life and have had 10y of appreciation of assets isn’t very much to go forward with.
- dzonga 3mo ago
  averages strike again. Median wealth in the U.S just around $100k - see Wikipedia & other databases. how many people own houses ? & for those people that own houses - average equity in those houses is less than 45%. ain't no factoid - but lived reality of most people. maybe on the coasts where techies and finance bros live - but the rest of america is facing a bleak financial reality.
  - dzonga 3mo ago
    actually per UBS [0]: Median Wealth in the US is $68K. Almost neck in neck with median income. [0]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/media/display-page-ndp/en-20260630-gwr-2026.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/media/display-page-ndp/en-2026...
  - Aurornis 3mo ago
    > averages strike again. My comment said "median" explicitly The number was for household wealth. I think you're looking at individual wealth, which would naturally be lower because it's spread across more people. Source: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table/#series:Net_Worth;demographic:all;population:all;units:median https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table... The average (mean) is closer to $1 million per family, but that's not a useful number.
Danox 3mo ago
And those people never get to a point where they save anything, renting, leasing, pay as you go, credit cards, reverse mortgages are a losing game the house always wins.
prmoustache 3mo ago
I think what he means is that if you can't swallow $433 on one payment, it is more likely you can't support and accumulate monthly subscriptions either and you should look at sub $200 smartphones. It is not like having a $1200 flagship smartphone is a requirement to earn a living like, say, having a mean of transportation is to many people not living close to their workplace. There is nothing one do in a flagship that you can't do - albeit maybe with less quality or slower - than a lower end one. All allows to make and receive calls, use messaging, have a browser, apps. To be honest, I am clumsy and break stuff easily so I have never spent more than $200 on a smartphone, my current one is a pixel 6a running grapheneos that I bought for 180€ 2.5 years ago. It makes very good photos actually and is fast enough for everything I do. I understand people can want something nicer but it is not a need.

by dzonga 3mo ago

you overestimate the financial health of most Americans. most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population.

gruez 3mo ago

>when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population. That's not really applicable because: 1. the study is for an "unexpected" expense. This you can see from 2 years away 2. The wording in the study was something along the lines of "would have to dip into savings", not that they literally don't have any money for it. The fed's survey of consumer finances shows the median household has between 7-13k (depending whether you're counting median income or median wealth) in their checking accounts https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart/#series:Transaction_Accounts;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:median;range:1989,2022 https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/chart...

paxys 3mo ago
Not sure what you are trying to argue. Should people be more financially responsible? Yes Are they today? No In a rational world payday loans, predatory auto loans, BNPL, perpetually rolling credit card debt etc would not need to exist. Yet these sectors are rapidly growing and companies in it are thriving.
- gruez 3mo ago
  >Not sure what you are trying to argue. I'm saying the specific claim of "most people live on credit cards as bridge finance between paychecks. when I mean most people - I mean 50% of the population" is false.

Zambyte 3mo ago

There are phones that cost a lot less though. 50% of Americans being unable to afford iPhones doesn't mean they should just lease them. People need to stop associating so much personal sense of worth with their handheld computer. - written on my S10

oniony 3mo ago
Crazy you had such a pertinent message written on your S10.
Danox 3mo ago
For many that is their only computer in that context having a smartphone definitely isn’t a bad thing. What’s bad is not saving up to buy it. Do not buy it on credit if you don’t have to, however, it must be said that if you get an iPhone, it does have better resale value (all Apple computers, and iPads) have a longer lifespan software wise, probably more than most other smartphones, which comes back to the question why are you renting or leasing? Just buy it on time with minimum interest upfront if you absolutely must buy it? Owner of an 11 Pro iPhone from 2019. With one or two years of Apple software support left?
blackqueeriroh 3mo ago
> People need to stop associating so much personal sense of worth with their handheld computer. This might be the funniest thing I’ve ever read on this nerd website.
- harvey9 3mo ago
  A lot of people buy phones as conventional status symbols rather than for nerd points. My massive generalisation is hn values doing something interesting with the hardware.
  - Zambyte 3mo ago
    Exactly. I'm talking about the green bubble vs blue bubble social nonsense that causes people to spend >$1k on a device that they use for talk, text, and basic media functions. It's essentially jewelry, nothing to do with nerddom.

Aurornis 3mo ago

The median US household has a net worth of $200,000. Even a 50th percentile US household is very wealthy by global standards. Credit card statistics are heavily manipulated because it's easy to make them sound terrible. I don't know which factoid specifically you're referring to, but the studies about "X percent of Americans couldn't handle an emergency expense without putting it on a credit card" often use tricks like including anyone who would pay by credit card if they could. I remember reading some of these studies and realizing that I would have been included in the statistic because I prefer to use a credit card where I can, even though I pay it off before interest accrues.

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
cronin101 3mo ago
Net worth or net income? Being 40yo with only 200k of worth between two when you’re halfway through your working life and have had 10y of appreciation of assets isn’t very much to go forward with.
dzonga 3mo ago
averages strike again. Median wealth in the U.S just around $100k - see Wikipedia & other databases. how many people own houses ? & for those people that own houses - average equity in those houses is less than 45%. ain't no factoid - but lived reality of most people. maybe on the coasts where techies and finance bros live - but the rest of america is facing a bleak financial reality.
- dzonga 3mo ago
  actually per UBS [0]: Median Wealth in the US is $68K. Almost neck in neck with median income. [0]: https://www.ubs.com/global/en/media/display-page-ndp/en-20260630-gwr-2026.html https://www.ubs.com/global/en/media/display-page-ndp/en-2026...
- Aurornis 3mo ago
  > averages strike again. My comment said "median" explicitly The number was for household wealth. I think you're looking at individual wealth, which would naturally be lower because it's spread across more people. Source: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table/#series:Net_Worth;demographic:all;population:all;units:median https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table... The average (mean) is closer to $1 million per family, but that's not a useful number.

Danox 3mo ago

And those people never get to a point where they save anything, renting, leasing, pay as you go, credit cards, reverse mortgages are a losing game the house always wins.

prmoustache 3mo ago

I think what he means is that if you can't swallow $433 on one payment, it is more likely you can't support and accumulate monthly subscriptions either and you should look at sub $200 smartphones. It is not like having a $1200 flagship smartphone is a requirement to earn a living like, say, having a mean of transportation is to many people not living close to their workplace. There is nothing one do in a flagship that you can't do - albeit maybe with less quality or slower - than a lower end one. All allows to make and receive calls, use messaging, have a browser, apps. To be honest, I am clumsy and break stuff easily so I have never spent more than $200 on a smartphone, my current one is a pixel 6a running grapheneos that I bought for 180€ 2.5 years ago. It makes very good photos actually and is fast enough for everything I do. I understand people can want something nicer but it is not a need.