3 ms·

Why not sell phones?

by dvh 2mo ago

mschild 2mo ago
Because that would require a massive network and additional legal liabilities. Partnering with Motorola seems to be the best bet.
- t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
  Motorola... which used to be owned by Google (naturally).
pocksuppet 2mo ago
https://proxysto.re/en/ https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.
- HDBaseT 2mo ago
  I feel like this glows.
  - Cider9986 2mo ago
    You can verify it was installed correctly using boot hash+attestation+factory reset. Much easier to just install yourself though. They have instructions for verifying. Many services sell phones with GrapheneOS preloaded. Can be easily verified but no benefit for most people so it probably doesn't glow. Proxysto.re seems to list good services as well and minimizes data. Accepting Monero is positive for their trust as well.
  - pocksuppet 2mo ago
    I've been to the store personally. Seemed alright. I can't prove their stuff isn't tampered with, but it's an ordinary store run by a bit of a privacy/self-defense nut.
bluebarbet 2mo ago
This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.
- gertop 2mo ago
  > An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable. > By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux Those exists. They've never gained traction. If you think graphene is too much tinkering, you'll be traumatised by that landscape.
  - bluebarbet 2mo ago
    >All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable. Outside a section of the Western middle class, ordinary people in 2026 only own one computer and it's in their pocket.
    - Itoldmyselfso 2mo ago
      You can install GOS via another Android phone...
      - bluebarbet 2mo ago
        Still too complicated for just about anyone except the kind of people who frequent this forum.
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  Grapheneos has take over the alternative OS scene even with manual installations. ~400k+ users based on updates (no telemetry). Anyone can sell phones with it preinstalled and you can verify it's a legit install. They mentioned they would like to eventually have Motorolas sold with it as stock so that's hopeful.
jitix 2mo ago
They could partner with Fairphone and each can bring their complementary competencies.
- doug-moen 2mo ago
  You are asking if a partnership with Fairphone would bring in revenue for GrapheneOS. Fairphone would need to design a new phone with hardware that meets the security requirements of GrapheneOS, which is what Motorola is doing in the announced partnership. There is the development cost, and then the new phone hardware would be more expensive than the Fairphone 6. For Fairphone, there is the question of whether the cost of developing this new phone will be recovered in sales of this more expensive phone. Would Fairphone give GrapheneOS a big enough share of the profits to fund the port of GrapheneOS to this new hardware and pay for the share of the costs of the monthly software updates? Otherwise it wouldn't reduce GrapheneOS's need to fundraise via donations, which is the subject of this thread. I don't know if Motorola is offering any cash to GrapheneOS, but they are a famous enough manufacturer that the partnership will raise the profile of GrapheneOS and help them be more successful. By contrast, I'm not sure how many people have heard of Fairphone but have not heard of GrapheneOS. The only reason I've heard of either project is through tech social media. Retail outlets in my area don't sell Fairphone and local mobile operators don't offer Fairphone hardware. But these guys do offer Motorola. In summary, I'm not sure a Fairphone GrapheneOS partnership makes financial sense for either project, even if it sounds great from a tech nerd perspective.
  - jitix 2mo ago
    In all honesty, I first found out about LineageOS while looking for “pure Android”, then GrapheneOS when I wanted more sane privacy defaults and only then I learned about Fairphone when I started looking for devices to run GrapheneOS and discovered that it would need a Google Pixel. I’m super excited about the Motorola partnership!
- grapheneos 2mo ago
  Fairphones have very poor security at a hardware, firmware and software level. They've shown complete disinterest in making devices meeting our requirements. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... Fairphone is closely partnered with /e/ and Murena which have repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS mainly benefits criminals and pedophiles. They've also said that about hardened devices in general on several occasions. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by GrapheneOS. That's part of years of misleading people about what GrapheneOS provides to promote their products. Fairphone stood by them on this. https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171 It's very relevant the context leading someone to post this thread. /e/ and Murena directly got involved in attacking us during the attacks on GrapheneOS with misinformation in France by a national law enforcement agency. Many of the claims made to attack it closely resemble years of past attacks by /e/ and Murena falsely framing it as being for criminals and not suited for regular people.
joecot 2mo ago
Motorola will be releasing phones compatible with GrapheneOS, though it's unclear if they will ship with GrapheneOS.

Why not sell phones?

by dvh 2mo ago

Why not sell phones?

Because that would require a massive network and additional legal liabilities. Partnering with Motorola seems to be the best bet.

t0mpr1c3 2mo ago
Motorola... which used to be owned by Google (naturally).

pocksuppet 2mo ago

https://proxysto.re/en/ https://proxysto.re/en/ sells GrapheneOS phones, with worldwide shipping I believe. They do donate a portion of every sale to GrapheneOS. However, you're recommended to install GrapheneOS yourself and not buy it from someone else, so that you know it hasn't been tampered with.

HDBaseT 2mo ago
I feel like this glows.
- Cider9986 2mo ago
  You can verify it was installed correctly using boot hash+attestation+factory reset. Much easier to just install yourself though. They have instructions for verifying. Many services sell phones with GrapheneOS preloaded. Can be easily verified but no benefit for most people so it probably doesn't glow. Proxysto.re seems to list good services as well and minimizes data. Accepting Monero is positive for their trust as well.
- pocksuppet 2mo ago
  I've been to the store personally. Seemed alright. I can't prove their stuff isn't tampered with, but it's an ordinary store run by a bit of a privacy/self-defense nut.

bluebarbet 2mo ago

This is surely the closest to a solution we have, IMO. An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream. By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux. At which point companies and governments will be forced to take software freedom slightly more seriously. That's my optimistic take.

gertop 2mo ago
> An alternative to the Android-iOS duopoly that involves futzing with cables and command lines is never going to go mainstream All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable. > By contrast, a vertically integrated FOSS(ish) hardware-software stack might eventually get to 5% market share, like desktop Linux Those exists. They've never gained traction. If you think graphene is too much tinkering, you'll be traumatised by that landscape.
- bluebarbet 2mo ago
  >All you need to install graphene is a web browser and USB cable. Outside a section of the Western middle class, ordinary people in 2026 only own one computer and it's in their pocket.
  - Itoldmyselfso 2mo ago
    You can install GOS via another Android phone...
    - bluebarbet 2mo ago
      Still too complicated for just about anyone except the kind of people who frequent this forum.
Cider9986 2mo ago
Grapheneos has take over the alternative OS scene even with manual installations. ~400k+ users based on updates (no telemetry). Anyone can sell phones with it preinstalled and you can verify it's a legit install. They mentioned they would like to eventually have Motorolas sold with it as stock so that's hopeful.

jitix 2mo ago

They could partner with Fairphone and each can bring their complementary competencies.

doug-moen 2mo ago
You are asking if a partnership with Fairphone would bring in revenue for GrapheneOS. Fairphone would need to design a new phone with hardware that meets the security requirements of GrapheneOS, which is what Motorola is doing in the announced partnership. There is the development cost, and then the new phone hardware would be more expensive than the Fairphone 6. For Fairphone, there is the question of whether the cost of developing this new phone will be recovered in sales of this more expensive phone. Would Fairphone give GrapheneOS a big enough share of the profits to fund the port of GrapheneOS to this new hardware and pay for the share of the costs of the monthly software updates? Otherwise it wouldn't reduce GrapheneOS's need to fundraise via donations, which is the subject of this thread. I don't know if Motorola is offering any cash to GrapheneOS, but they are a famous enough manufacturer that the partnership will raise the profile of GrapheneOS and help them be more successful. By contrast, I'm not sure how many people have heard of Fairphone but have not heard of GrapheneOS. The only reason I've heard of either project is through tech social media. Retail outlets in my area don't sell Fairphone and local mobile operators don't offer Fairphone hardware. But these guys do offer Motorola. In summary, I'm not sure a Fairphone GrapheneOS partnership makes financial sense for either project, even if it sounds great from a tech nerd perspective.
- jitix 2mo ago
  In all honesty, I first found out about LineageOS while looking for “pure Android”, then GrapheneOS when I wanted more sane privacy defaults and only then I learned about Fairphone when I started looking for devices to run GrapheneOS and discovered that it would need a Google Pixel. I’m super excited about the Motorola partnership!
grapheneos 2mo ago
Fairphones have very poor security at a hardware, firmware and software level. They've shown complete disinterest in making devices meeting our requirements. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... Fairphone is closely partnered with /e/ and Murena which have repeatedly claimed GrapheneOS mainly benefits criminals and pedophiles. They've also said that about hardened devices in general on several occasions. They've falsely claimed GrapheneOS is mainly used by GrapheneOS. That's part of years of misleading people about what GrapheneOS provides to promote their products. Fairphone stood by them on this. https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/116353973732143171 It's very relevant the context leading someone to post this thread. /e/ and Murena directly got involved in attacking us during the attacks on GrapheneOS with misinformation in France by a national law enforcement agency. Many of the claims made to attack it closely resemble years of past attacks by /e/ and Murena falsely framing it as being for criminals and not suited for regular people.

joecot 2mo ago

Motorola will be releasing phones compatible with GrapheneOS, though it's unclear if they will ship with GrapheneOS.