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It's hard to gauge the sincerity of these beliefs, and even harder to tell if you've actually tested these beliefs against the reality of mass surveillance, esp
by infinite_spin 3mo ago
It's hard to gauge the sincerity of these beliefs, and even harder to tell if you've actually tested these beliefs against the reality of mass surveillance, especially when it's been used to arrest and stalk innocent people.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/georgia-cops-keep-getting-arrested-152500231.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/georgia-cops-keep-get...
https://cambridgeanalytica.org/surveillance-privacy/police-flock-cameras-stalking-arrests-51112/ https://cambridgeanalytica.org/surveillance-privacy/police-f...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-cop-investigating-a-flock-stalking-was-charged-with-flock-stalking/ar-AA28D3dI https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/the-cop-investigating-a...
- IncreasePosts 3mo agoWell, we need laws and oversight to stop these actions. Do you realize that people use phones to stalk innocent people? And yet you probably have a phone. Why is that?
- ceejayoz 3mo ago> Well, we need laws and oversight to stop these actions. Do you think this hasn't been tried? We have laws on stalking. We've tried to rein in cops.
- bigyabai 3mo agoWe have laws and oversight surrounding phone surveillance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception Just like you say, it still gets abused both within and outside the government (eg. Salt Typhoon) because surveillance inherently threatens society.
- IncreasePosts 3mo agoShouldn't we get rid of phones then?
- bigyabai 3mo agoMore to your point, shouldn't we arrest anyone without a phone? It's unfair that criminals can opt-out of surveillance, while Senators and CEOs cannot.
- happytoexplain 3mo agoThis is like the "why drive if it's so dangerous" fallacy. We trade cost for value, downsides for upsides, risk for reward. Cars and phones are highly valuable to normal people. Virtually all people do not experience immediate, constant, concrete benefits from public camera surveillance. And this is not even to mention that Flock cameras are more abused than phones (although scale makes that subjective, it's kind of apples-to-oranges right now). Analogies are distracting. They are rhetorical junk food. Make an argument directly supporting Flock cameras - don't just say "it's like phones".
- IncreasePosts 3mo agoThis was my exact point. I don't actually believe in banning phones and was just using it to point out how poor the argument is. I'm curious why you're jumping on me, but not OP. Is it because you agree with their opinions but not mine? Saying "surveillance is bad because it has been abused in these instances" is not a particularly compelling argument because it doesn't talk about the "cost for value, downsides for upsides, risk for reward" aspects of flock.
- anigbrowl 3mo agohttps://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/mister-gotcha-4-9faefa-1.jpg https://iea.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/mister-gotcha-...
- infinite_spin 2mo agoMy phone wasn't designed to stalk other people. These systems are.