4 ms·

I would have thought that support for this architecture would have been useful to keep, since a lot of rad-hardened systems (think space, satellite applications

by frogurt 14y ago

I would have thought that support for this architecture would have been useful to keep, since a lot of rad-hardened systems (think space, satellite applications) still use it.

steevdave 14y ago
A rad hardened machine won't be running 3.7, or 3.6.x for that matter. They will be running something a bit older with (guess I don't know for sure) security patches being back ported as needed.
- Moto7451 14y ago
  I'd think that most of them would be using a RTOS like VxWorks or QNX.
  - primitur 14y ago
    Linux is used in a lot of places these days, where VxWorks or QNX might've been. I've been responsible for putting Linux to work in SIL-4 critical systems all over Europe, for example, saving millions in licensing costs while at the same time, getting Linux certified for safety-critical apps. It really is taking over.
    - stusmall 14y ago
      Whats the current state of the real-time patches for linux? Last I'd talk to someone about them, this was a while ago, they felt a bit sub-par. From a developer's point of view is it as easy to work with and predictable as VxWorks?
      - primitur 14y ago
        Sure, its easy to work with. Just don't always try to work with the latest, bleeding edge kernels. Most RT/Safety-Critical Linux kernel installs are still based on 2.6.x, or even some cases, 2.4.x series ..
georgemcbay 14y ago
Applications that use those sorts of chips probably also use really old versions of the kernel (if they use the Linux kernel at all), versions that they validated for their use case many years ago and then never updated.
ghshephard 14y ago
Apparently Intel has had a Radiation Hardened Pentium for 14 years: http://www.sandia.gov/media/rhp.htm http://www.sandia.gov/media/rhp.htm Those satellites that are going up with the old radiation hardened 386 are going to have to run a version of the linux kernel 3.7 or earlier. I suspect they are conservative with regards to their kernel choice anyways, so that should be okay.
kev009 14y ago
I'm into retrocomputing so these kinds of retirements always sting a bit. In realistic long term operations, deprecations don't hurt. I.e. your air traffic control system running on PA-RISC and HP-UX doesn't care that HP-UX only run on Itanium now. You keep running the old software and set up some kind of support schedule to keep the system patched during it's service life through the vendor or otherwise.
- JeremyMorgan 14y ago
  It's comforting to know others are interested in "retrocomputing". For some reason I like slow old computers too. (Not being sarcastic here at all)
  - rbanffy 14y ago
    It's preserving our history. We can learn a lot from what we already did. Besides, when the machines take over, they may want to spare those who respected them ;-) I hope they feed me and keep my cage clean.
  - meaty 14y ago
    Same. Sometimes they are faster and more productive, despite being older.
  - stusmall 14y ago
    I've got a soft spot for the Z80 and they were considered out of date by the time I was born. A few years ago I found a great book on how to build a simple microcomputer based on the Z80. I learned a ton working through that book and that little chip brought me a lot of joy. I've still got a couple Z80s in my part drawer... you know... just in case...
    - aidenn0 14y ago
      Z80 was only out of date when you were born if you're not TI.
- bodyfour 14y ago
wladimir 14y ago
Linux is very slow with removing old drivers and CPUs compared to the commercial operating systems, which is nice because it allows it to run almost everywhere on the cheapest hardware. But they cannot keep everything forever (maintainability nightmare). They also removed token ring network support just this year.

by frogurt 14y ago

I would have thought that support for this architecture would have been useful to keep, since a lot of rad-hardened systems (think space, satellite applications) still use it.

steevdave 14y ago

A rad hardened machine won't be running 3.7, or 3.6.x for that matter. They will be running something a bit older with (guess I don't know for sure) security patches being back ported as needed.

Moto7451 14y ago
I'd think that most of them would be using a RTOS like VxWorks or QNX.
- primitur 14y ago
  Linux is used in a lot of places these days, where VxWorks or QNX might've been. I've been responsible for putting Linux to work in SIL-4 critical systems all over Europe, for example, saving millions in licensing costs while at the same time, getting Linux certified for safety-critical apps. It really is taking over.
  - stusmall 14y ago
    Whats the current state of the real-time patches for linux? Last I'd talk to someone about them, this was a while ago, they felt a bit sub-par. From a developer's point of view is it as easy to work with and predictable as VxWorks?
    - primitur 14y ago
      Sure, its easy to work with. Just don't always try to work with the latest, bleeding edge kernels. Most RT/Safety-Critical Linux kernel installs are still based on 2.6.x, or even some cases, 2.4.x series ..

georgemcbay 14y ago

Applications that use those sorts of chips probably also use really old versions of the kernel (if they use the Linux kernel at all), versions that they validated for their use case many years ago and then never updated.

ghshephard 14y ago

Apparently Intel has had a Radiation Hardened Pentium for 14 years: http://www.sandia.gov/media/rhp.htm http://www.sandia.gov/media/rhp.htm Those satellites that are going up with the old radiation hardened 386 are going to have to run a version of the linux kernel 3.7 or earlier. I suspect they are conservative with regards to their kernel choice anyways, so that should be okay.

kev009 14y ago

I'm into retrocomputing so these kinds of retirements always sting a bit. In realistic long term operations, deprecations don't hurt. I.e. your air traffic control system running on PA-RISC and HP-UX doesn't care that HP-UX only run on Itanium now. You keep running the old software and set up some kind of support schedule to keep the system patched during it's service life through the vendor or otherwise.

JeremyMorgan 14y ago
It's comforting to know others are interested in "retrocomputing". For some reason I like slow old computers too. (Not being sarcastic here at all)
- rbanffy 14y ago
  It's preserving our history. We can learn a lot from what we already did. Besides, when the machines take over, they may want to spare those who respected them ;-) I hope they feed me and keep my cage clean.
- meaty 14y ago
  Same. Sometimes they are faster and more productive, despite being older.
- stusmall 14y ago
  I've got a soft spot for the Z80 and they were considered out of date by the time I was born. A few years ago I found a great book on how to build a simple microcomputer based on the Z80. I learned a ton working through that book and that little chip brought me a lot of joy. I've still got a couple Z80s in my part drawer... you know... just in case...
  - aidenn0 14y ago
    Z80 was only out of date when you were born if you're not TI.
bodyfour 14y ago

wladimir 14y ago

Linux is very slow with removing old drivers and CPUs compared to the commercial operating systems, which is nice because it allows it to run almost everywhere on the cheapest hardware. But they cannot keep everything forever (maintainability nightmare). They also removed token ring network support just this year.