3 ms·

I see some places in the Japanese countryside where homeowners get propane tanks delivered to them for cooking? I believe in an earthquake prone country, this

I see some places in the Japanese countryside where homeowners get propane tanks delivered to them for cooking? I believe in an earthquake prone country, this is safer than having natural gas piped to their homes? The problem I think is that Japanese culture values hot baths daily. Heating water for the bath using electricity is still too costly.

kalleboo 2mo ago
Propane tanks strapped to your house is common even in cities since it's cheaper to install (but then costs more per cubic meter). The downside to propane tanks is they become fireworks if a neighbor has a fire which heats them up. In Japan anyone who goes all-electric these days is getting a heat pump water heater ("eco-cute") by default, resistive electric heating doesn't really exist out of small plugin units like kotatsu and radiant heaters.
- rawgabbit 2mo ago
  If you have a link to an "eco-cute" water heater, I would like to learn more. Thanks.
  - kalleboo 2mo ago
    All the big Japanese makes have them. They basically look like a water tank with the outside portion of a mini split air conditioner hooked up next to them. With my power company in Japan, by going "all-electric" (having an eco-cute and induction stove), I qualify for a rate plan where I can trade off solar power peak hours (half price) for the duck curve hours (double price), so I have my water heating only running during cheap hours and cut down on air conditioning during the expensive hours. Ours is from Mitsubishi and is just the builder-grade one from our fix-rate renovation company. It will connect to the wifi so you can start a bath from an app on your phone on your way home from work. There's also an intercom between the bath and the kitchen so mom can tell the kids to get out of the bath, dinner is done. Traditional Japanese values. Mitsubishi https://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/home/ecocute/ https://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/home/ecocute/ Panasonic https://sumai.panasonic.jp/hp/ https://sumai.panasonic.jp/hp/ Daikin https://www.ac.daikin.co.jp/sumai/alldenka/ecocute/structure https://www.ac.daikin.co.jp/sumai/alldenka/ecocute/structure Corona https://www.corona.co.jp/eco/ https://www.corona.co.jp/eco/ Noritz https://www.noritz.co.jp/product/kyutou_bath/ecocute/ https://www.noritz.co.jp/product/kyutou_bath/ecocute/
    - klausa 2mo ago
      The bath intercom always cracks me up. I’m sure it makes sense in bigger, maybe multi-level houses; but I can’t imagine myself ever using it in my 2LDK.
      - bombcar 2mo ago
        I thought so to until I repurposed some old Cisco phones - the difference between talking and yelling is huge.
      - rawgabbit 2mo ago
        I see the Mitsubishi one uses CO2 as the refrigerant. And the warranty lasts for ten years. And the model for cold regions recommends putting the outdoor unit in an elevated covered stand. I assume to keep the snow and wet away. I will look at the other models later. Thanks again.
    - rawgabbit 2mo ago
      Hey thanks. I'll be reading these in-depth. I am fascinated by Japanese appliance tech-wizardry. LOL about the mom using the intercom to get the kids out of the bath.
    - numpad0 2mo ago
      btw, "eco-cute" is a pun on cute and kyuto(給湯, "supply hotwater")
  - larkost 2mo ago
    From a quick look, these are very similar to the heat pump water heaters that are starting to become common in the SF Bay Area (it looks like gas water heaters will be banned in the next few years, so people are hopping on the band wagon). At a glance the only difference is the ones I am seeing have the heat exchangers in the body of the unit (so take the heat from the room where the tank is), whereas these "eco-cute" look like they put that outside the home.
toast0 2mo ago
Where I live in the US (near Seattle), there's no piped natural gas, most detatched houses have a 250-500 gallon propane tank. Seattle has piped gas, but my county never had the density to justify the expense to install distribution piping and now its disfavored. My house has a second tank for a backup generator. We use the main tank for our stove/range, water heater, clothes dryer, and a decorative fireplace that's rarely used. Some neighbors have a propane furnace, but we've got a heatpump with resistive strips as backup heat.
- rawgabbit 2mo ago
  Wow that's interesting. If you have to do it all over again, would you still get the heatpump?
  - toast0 2mo ago
    Yes, our climate rarely drops below freezing, so the heatpump is a good fit. My house has little shade, so a/c in the summer is very nice. I would have a separate unit for the basement and the first floor though; we do have zoning dampers, but it's not very effective and the basement gets too cold. Propane deliveries are expensive, if starting from scratch, I might have wired for electric clothes drying and water heating. And I would have probably gone with owned tanks instead of the current system where the delivery company owns the tanks. Electricity prices doubled in the last 5 years, but propane may have gone up more.
  - idiotsecant 2mo ago
    seattle is basically the ideal location for a heatpump.
- saltcured 2mo ago
  It's interesting all the permutations there are out there. We have gas from PG&E. Our house has an electric clothes dryer, gas stove with dual-fuel oven, gas furnace, and gas water heater. No air-conditioning other than a portable unit for "emergency" heatwave and AQI events. Our furnace is ancient, and the winter gas bill is the painful part. I have a long term interest in full electrification, but find the process daunting due to the interlocking set upgrades. Between insulation envelope upgrades and electrical system upgrades, there is a lot of potentially disruptive work needed to even allow permits to be issued for heat-pump HVAC and water heater or fully electric kitchen. If the internal wiring also needs much work, it threatens to be almost as invasive as a gut renovation. Then, I ponder what other work we'd want to piggyback on it. But then it all sounds too much for life and budgets, so we procrastinate...

kalleboo 2mo ago

Propane tanks strapped to your house is common even in cities since it's cheaper to install (but then costs more per cubic meter). The downside to propane tanks is they become fireworks if a neighbor has a fire which heats them up. In Japan anyone who goes all-electric these days is getting a heat pump water heater ("eco-cute") by default, resistive electric heating doesn't really exist out of small plugin units like kotatsu and radiant heaters.

rawgabbit 2mo ago
If you have a link to an "eco-cute" water heater, I would like to learn more. Thanks.
- kalleboo 2mo ago
  All the big Japanese makes have them. They basically look like a water tank with the outside portion of a mini split air conditioner hooked up next to them. With my power company in Japan, by going "all-electric" (having an eco-cute and induction stove), I qualify for a rate plan where I can trade off solar power peak hours (half price) for the duck curve hours (double price), so I have my water heating only running during cheap hours and cut down on air conditioning during the expensive hours. Ours is from Mitsubishi and is just the builder-grade one from our fix-rate renovation company. It will connect to the wifi so you can start a bath from an app on your phone on your way home from work. There's also an intercom between the bath and the kitchen so mom can tell the kids to get out of the bath, dinner is done. Traditional Japanese values. Mitsubishi https://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/home/ecocute/ https://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/home/ecocute/ Panasonic https://sumai.panasonic.jp/hp/ https://sumai.panasonic.jp/hp/ Daikin https://www.ac.daikin.co.jp/sumai/alldenka/ecocute/structure https://www.ac.daikin.co.jp/sumai/alldenka/ecocute/structure Corona https://www.corona.co.jp/eco/ https://www.corona.co.jp/eco/ Noritz https://www.noritz.co.jp/product/kyutou_bath/ecocute/ https://www.noritz.co.jp/product/kyutou_bath/ecocute/
  - klausa 2mo ago
    The bath intercom always cracks me up. I’m sure it makes sense in bigger, maybe multi-level houses; but I can’t imagine myself ever using it in my 2LDK.
    - bombcar 2mo ago
      I thought so to until I repurposed some old Cisco phones - the difference between talking and yelling is huge.
    - rawgabbit 2mo ago
      I see the Mitsubishi one uses CO2 as the refrigerant. And the warranty lasts for ten years. And the model for cold regions recommends putting the outdoor unit in an elevated covered stand. I assume to keep the snow and wet away. I will look at the other models later. Thanks again.
  - rawgabbit 2mo ago
    Hey thanks. I'll be reading these in-depth. I am fascinated by Japanese appliance tech-wizardry. LOL about the mom using the intercom to get the kids out of the bath.
  - numpad0 2mo ago
    btw, "eco-cute" is a pun on cute and kyuto(給湯, "supply hotwater")
- larkost 2mo ago
  From a quick look, these are very similar to the heat pump water heaters that are starting to become common in the SF Bay Area (it looks like gas water heaters will be banned in the next few years, so people are hopping on the band wagon). At a glance the only difference is the ones I am seeing have the heat exchangers in the body of the unit (so take the heat from the room where the tank is), whereas these "eco-cute" look like they put that outside the home.

toast0 2mo ago

Where I live in the US (near Seattle), there's no piped natural gas, most detatched houses have a 250-500 gallon propane tank. Seattle has piped gas, but my county never had the density to justify the expense to install distribution piping and now its disfavored. My house has a second tank for a backup generator. We use the main tank for our stove/range, water heater, clothes dryer, and a decorative fireplace that's rarely used. Some neighbors have a propane furnace, but we've got a heatpump with resistive strips as backup heat.

rawgabbit 2mo ago
Wow that's interesting. If you have to do it all over again, would you still get the heatpump?
- toast0 2mo ago
  Yes, our climate rarely drops below freezing, so the heatpump is a good fit. My house has little shade, so a/c in the summer is very nice. I would have a separate unit for the basement and the first floor though; we do have zoning dampers, but it's not very effective and the basement gets too cold. Propane deliveries are expensive, if starting from scratch, I might have wired for electric clothes drying and water heating. And I would have probably gone with owned tanks instead of the current system where the delivery company owns the tanks. Electricity prices doubled in the last 5 years, but propane may have gone up more.
- idiotsecant 2mo ago
  seattle is basically the ideal location for a heatpump.
saltcured 2mo ago
It's interesting all the permutations there are out there. We have gas from PG&E. Our house has an electric clothes dryer, gas stove with dual-fuel oven, gas furnace, and gas water heater. No air-conditioning other than a portable unit for "emergency" heatwave and AQI events. Our furnace is ancient, and the winter gas bill is the painful part. I have a long term interest in full electrification, but find the process daunting due to the interlocking set upgrades. Between insulation envelope upgrades and electrical system upgrades, there is a lot of potentially disruptive work needed to even allow permits to be issued for heat-pump HVAC and water heater or fully electric kitchen. If the internal wiring also needs much work, it threatens to be almost as invasive as a gut renovation. Then, I ponder what other work we'd want to piggyback on it. But then it all sounds too much for life and budgets, so we procrastinate...