4 ms·

Two evils just means there are two evils. We don't have to value one more than the other. Wrongs don't negate each other.

by minraws 2mo ago

guax 2mo ago
Correct, but people are not wrong in being more concerned about the evil biting than the one keeping it chill.
- minraws 2mo ago
  Given it's an internet forum, and people here can be anyone around the world, I understand your intent but people over index on the threat that ofc feels closer, rather than the threat that's significantly farther away. But in general if you ask folks in south east Asia you will find they are likely to be more concerned with China than US except this maddening Oil Crisis. Although I think people now are very afraid/wary of both evils. The US govt should think why people in all parts of the world including US itself feel just if not more threatened by them, than China and other evils we have floating around. I would like to hope my American friends didn't vote for this madness or maybe they did I have read DHH's tweets.
- rob74 2mo ago
  Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. As the saying goes: "better the devil you know". China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it). The same cannot be said of other great powers like the US (under Trump, for more reasons than I'm willing to list here) and Russia (with Putin's completely harebrained invasion of Ukraine). China can prove me wrong any time by invading Taiwan, but I still hope they don't. Of course, if we try to keep them away from advanced chip technology, that would be further motivation to invade (although TSMC is unlikely to survive an invasion - even if it did survive the actual conflict, it would probably be destroyed or evacuated to avoid it falling into Chinese hands? But I don't want to see the hardware prices after such an event).
  - p2detar 2mo ago
    [flagged]
    - rob74 2mo ago
      Yes we do. We also (despite theories stating the contrary) know that the current climate change is caused by us burning too many fossil fuels, that the utility of vaccines preventing deadly diseases outweighs any rare side effects, that airlines are not involved in a secret conspiracy of releasing chemicals (all airlines at the same time and only in certain meteorological conditions), and that the earth is roughly spherical.
    - jeltz 2mo ago
      We do well enough. It either happened naturally, or less likely due to a lab accident. If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence.
      - p2detar 2mo ago
        I have read the WHO [0] report and the conclusion is "possibly to likely" about the zoonotic origin of Covid, so no there isn't conclusive report how it came to be. > If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence. Which is my point to GP's "reliable" argument. China is not reliable and has its own interests at play just like the US or any other state for that matter, regardless of its international partnerships. It does want to project itself as "reliable" - that I can't deny. 0 - https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-...
  - Foobar8568 2mo ago
    And let's not forget the kidnapping of a foreign president, and nothing happened.
  - ethbr1 2mo ago
    > China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it) Here's the dangerous thing about that: modern CCP China is a newly ascendant world power. Say what you want about the US today, but when was it at isn't interventionist worst historically-speaking? Countries don't go to war because their leaders take them to war: they go to war because a sufficient chunk of internal interests support war. And China has a rather politically-powerful military. Although Xi's recent housecleaning substantially weakened that power. If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters.
- roysting 2mo ago
  You should avoid agreeing with the narcissists that always use false equivalence, whataboutism, and goal post shifting the second you call them out. You are allowing them to define a ridiculous standard by agreeing with them that not only is it in fact “two evils” but what qualifies as evil. They’ll tell you…always only when called out, mind you…all and any meddling (also something they will then define with the same kind of falls equivalence loop) is evils, when that is simply not true, not is any kind of effort to influence the same thing as actual meddling, not us it always evil. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point, the narcissistic personality or their little zombies in most cases will constantly shift and change things all to avoid you from being able to get a clear focus on the truth, something their explosively allergic to. As an American child of the Empire with global perspective and very high access perspective, there is no other entity besides the cabal that controls the USA and acts flying its banner; that is more deadly, more meddling, more conniving, more evil, more supremacist, and more vile.
LtWorf 2mo ago
It is perfectly fine to say that a person who killed one person is bad but not as bad as the one who killed thousands. I eagerly await for the USA citizens to downvote this in about 5 hours.
khriss 2mo ago
Sadly, we live in a decidedly imperfect world. I don't think there is a single completely good person on the planet, let alone a country.
bambax 2mo ago
> We don't have to value one more than the other. Yes we do. We should evaluate threats and choose our allies carefully.
- jmye 2mo ago
  [dead]
wongarsu 2mo ago
If you have the choice between AI models created by one evil or the other, it does feel relevant which you consider to be the lesser evil
- repler 2mo ago
  That’s a pathetic moral band-aid. All technology can be used for good or used for evil depending on who is using it and how. From fire to internal combustion engines to nuclear energy.
tempfile 2mo ago
Nobody said they negate each other. The comment being discussed is fearmongering about China and is very relaxed about the USA. All we're saying is you should be either afraid of both or relaxed about both. China is not worse than the US.
- jmye 2mo ago
  [dead]

Two evils just means there are two evils. We don't have to value one more than the other. Wrongs don't negate each other.

by minraws 2mo ago

Two evils just means there are two evils. We don't have to value one more than the other. Wrongs don't negate each other.

guax 2mo ago

Correct, but people are not wrong in being more concerned about the evil biting than the one keeping it chill.

minraws 2mo ago
Given it's an internet forum, and people here can be anyone around the world, I understand your intent but people over index on the threat that ofc feels closer, rather than the threat that's significantly farther away. But in general if you ask folks in south east Asia you will find they are likely to be more concerned with China than US except this maddening Oil Crisis. Although I think people now are very afraid/wary of both evils. The US govt should think why people in all parts of the world including US itself feel just if not more threatened by them, than China and other evils we have floating around. I would like to hope my American friends didn't vote for this madness or maybe they did I have read DHH's tweets.
rob74 2mo ago
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. As the saying goes: "better the devil you know". China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it). The same cannot be said of other great powers like the US (under Trump, for more reasons than I'm willing to list here) and Russia (with Putin's completely harebrained invasion of Ukraine). China can prove me wrong any time by invading Taiwan, but I still hope they don't. Of course, if we try to keep them away from advanced chip technology, that would be further motivation to invade (although TSMC is unlikely to survive an invasion - even if it did survive the actual conflict, it would probably be destroyed or evacuated to avoid it falling into Chinese hands? But I don't want to see the hardware prices after such an event).
- p2detar 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - rob74 2mo ago
    Yes we do. We also (despite theories stating the contrary) know that the current climate change is caused by us burning too many fossil fuels, that the utility of vaccines preventing deadly diseases outweighs any rare side effects, that airlines are not involved in a secret conspiracy of releasing chemicals (all airlines at the same time and only in certain meteorological conditions), and that the earth is roughly spherical.
  - jeltz 2mo ago
    We do well enough. It either happened naturally, or less likely due to a lab accident. If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence.
    - p2detar 2mo ago
      I have read the WHO [0] report and the conclusion is "possibly to likely" about the zoonotic origin of Covid, so no there isn't conclusive report how it came to be. > If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence. Which is my point to GP's "reliable" argument. China is not reliable and has its own interests at play just like the US or any other state for that matter, regardless of its international partnerships. It does want to project itself as "reliable" - that I can't deny. 0 - https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-...
- Foobar8568 2mo ago
  And let's not forget the kidnapping of a foreign president, and nothing happened.
- ethbr1 2mo ago
  > China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it) Here's the dangerous thing about that: modern CCP China is a newly ascendant world power. Say what you want about the US today, but when was it at isn't interventionist worst historically-speaking? Countries don't go to war because their leaders take them to war: they go to war because a sufficient chunk of internal interests support war. And China has a rather politically-powerful military. Although Xi's recent housecleaning substantially weakened that power. If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters.
roysting 2mo ago
You should avoid agreeing with the narcissists that always use false equivalence, whataboutism, and goal post shifting the second you call them out. You are allowing them to define a ridiculous standard by agreeing with them that not only is it in fact “two evils” but what qualifies as evil. They’ll tell you…always only when called out, mind you…all and any meddling (also something they will then define with the same kind of falls equivalence loop) is evils, when that is simply not true, not is any kind of effort to influence the same thing as actual meddling, not us it always evil. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point, the narcissistic personality or their little zombies in most cases will constantly shift and change things all to avoid you from being able to get a clear focus on the truth, something their explosively allergic to. As an American child of the Empire with global perspective and very high access perspective, there is no other entity besides the cabal that controls the USA and acts flying its banner; that is more deadly, more meddling, more conniving, more evil, more supremacist, and more vile.

LtWorf 2mo ago

It is perfectly fine to say that a person who killed one person is bad but not as bad as the one who killed thousands. I eagerly await for the USA citizens to downvote this in about 5 hours.

khriss 2mo ago

Sadly, we live in a decidedly imperfect world. I don't think there is a single completely good person on the planet, let alone a country.

bambax 2mo ago

> We don't have to value one more than the other. Yes we do. We should evaluate threats and choose our allies carefully.

jmye 2mo ago
[dead]

wongarsu 2mo ago

If you have the choice between AI models created by one evil or the other, it does feel relevant which you consider to be the lesser evil

repler 2mo ago
That’s a pathetic moral band-aid. All technology can be used for good or used for evil depending on who is using it and how. From fire to internal combustion engines to nuclear energy.

tempfile 2mo ago

Nobody said they negate each other. The comment being discussed is fearmongering about China and is very relaxed about the USA. All we're saying is you should be either afraid of both or relaxed about both. China is not worse than the US.

jmye 2mo ago
[dead]