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Personally I've found Deepseek v4 Flash to be as useful to me as Opus. But I don't do these silly one shot tech demos. I have the technical understanding to ask

Personally I've found Deepseek v4 Flash to be as useful to me as Opus. But I don't do these silly one shot tech demos. I have the technical understanding to ask for exactly the change I want with the right terminology. I loaded up some credit on openrouter and it took me ages to hit $1 in spend.

cpursley 3mo ago
Which harness? I tried Kimi on Opencode Go and after an hour I hit my 5 hr limit and went back to Codex.
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  I was using the vscode copilot plugin with the bring your own api key from openrouter. It doesn’t have any subscription or limits. You just load up api credits.
wps 3mo ago
I’m the exact same way. $15 on openrouter lasted me so long it would’ve got me fired at FAANG. Despite this, my number of commits is dramatically higher. Small, beautifully scoped changes is just good software development, and good for the wallet as well. I think the issue is that no one is content with incremental progress. We all know one shots are mostly possible, so the age of the personal project is kind of over. There’s no motive to invest dozens of hours getting a working prototype when Claude can give you something right now. So you can’t make small changes until you have that codebase in place already. You’re forced to make sweeping changes if you use AI from the beginning. And it’s not like it matters, there’s no personal attachment to any one part of the code, it’s not even seen!
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  I can see why Anthropic is freaking out right now. China has undermined their whole business. AI models will be basic commodities where hosting providers earn a tiny margin over the raw costs rather than the predicted fortunes from being the gatekeepers to the technology.
  - basch 3mo ago
    the writing should have been on the wall when meta did it with llama. it was very apparent that one or two entities could release a "good enough" product into the wild commoditizing the frontier of yesterday.
  - cootsnuck 3mo ago
    [dead]
  - majormajor 3mo ago
    Their business model always seemed to be "become IBM, gods of the mainframe and server-side-computing" and that always seemed a bit unlikely to last forever considering how thoroughly the PC disrupted that by being "good enough" without the lock-in. IMO because they speed-ran it so much (raising orders of magnitudes more, pushing out new stuff orders of magnitudes faster) it will also lead to the rest of the world catching up faster and shrinking the pool of people internal to them who continually benefit compared to what actually went on with IBM. There's only so much upside when you join a company with hundreds-of-billions valuation. I guess the other part of their business plan bet was "become literal god of AGI". Maybe it'll still happen!
    - antonvs 3mo ago
      > “become literal god of AGI” That only lasts until the AGI decides their god would be more useful if turned into paperclips.
  - hangonhn 3mo ago
    Yeah I feel like China and their OSS model companies really did the world a great service by ensuring closed source US companies don't have an monopoly on LLMs and thus capture all the value of AI development and its impact on society. It's not going to be the foundational labs that will capture all the value -- I'm sure they will do just fine. A lot of it now will flow to the companies providing the inferences and since no one has any exclusive deals, those companies will have to compete and drive the price down, which ultimately benefits the rest of us.
- safety1st 3mo ago
  We intentionally use both Codex and Claude on our team so that we can compare and contrast. We are reasonably serious about delivering work that has been reviewed and tested with humans who are at a minimum steering that process, at maximum doing it the good old fashioned way. I feel like the Claude guy tends to overproduce, like it just loves to go beyond the spec, add embellishments we didn't ask for, all this generates a ton more code which may or may not be necessary, and in certain areas of the product like UX this may be fine but in sensitive business logic it's a hard no, we need to throw it out and rewrite. I see much less of this with Codex and I look forward to trying an open model when we have time. Personally my Claude subscription is languishing, I won't say it has zero uses but as a relative Claude latecomer I just feel like the style it produces is just not what I'm looking for. Claude feels more like gambling, that's what it is. Built for the vibe coder.
kansm 3mo ago
[dead]
ThePinion 3mo ago
Do you use DeepSeek for both planning and building or do you have a preferred builder? I've been looking into moving from Cursor to OpenCode, or at least have Opencode for when my allocated usage for the month is done.
surgical_fire 3mo ago
I use Claude at work; provided by my employer. I pay DeepSeek on a personal capacity. I honestly have a better experience using DeepSeek, in part because since the cost is lower I feel more free to experiment with it. But in part because the model is excellent, and can handle everything I throw at it in a collaborative manner. I am really excited for when V4 is out of preview and they are done with all the post-training bit.
Incipient 3mo ago
I'm genuinely curious how you can do this - with limited context tokens, I find the output is often inconsistent with the project, or recreates functionality it missed, if I forget to point it at every pertinent object/library/etc it will need.
- Gigachad 3mo ago
  Tbh I have only used it on small personal projects and some open source stuff so I haven’t done any crazy stress tests or benchmarks. But for my use case it was great.
h8hawk 3mo ago
I found Mimo 2.5 Pro to be the right balance between cost and intelligence. It costs the same as DeepSeek v4 Pro, but it's better overall by a small margin.

cpursley 3mo ago

Which harness? I tried Kimi on Opencode Go and after an hour I hit my 5 hr limit and went back to Codex.

Gigachad 3mo ago
I was using the vscode copilot plugin with the bring your own api key from openrouter. It doesn’t have any subscription or limits. You just load up api credits.

wps 3mo ago

I’m the exact same way. $15 on openrouter lasted me so long it would’ve got me fired at FAANG. Despite this, my number of commits is dramatically higher. Small, beautifully scoped changes is just good software development, and good for the wallet as well. I think the issue is that no one is content with incremental progress. We all know one shots are mostly possible, so the age of the personal project is kind of over. There’s no motive to invest dozens of hours getting a working prototype when Claude can give you something right now. So you can’t make small changes until you have that codebase in place already. You’re forced to make sweeping changes if you use AI from the beginning. And it’s not like it matters, there’s no personal attachment to any one part of the code, it’s not even seen!

Gigachad 3mo ago
I can see why Anthropic is freaking out right now. China has undermined their whole business. AI models will be basic commodities where hosting providers earn a tiny margin over the raw costs rather than the predicted fortunes from being the gatekeepers to the technology.
- basch 3mo ago
  the writing should have been on the wall when meta did it with llama. it was very apparent that one or two entities could release a "good enough" product into the wild commoditizing the frontier of yesterday.
- cootsnuck 3mo ago
  [dead]
- majormajor 3mo ago
  Their business model always seemed to be "become IBM, gods of the mainframe and server-side-computing" and that always seemed a bit unlikely to last forever considering how thoroughly the PC disrupted that by being "good enough" without the lock-in. IMO because they speed-ran it so much (raising orders of magnitudes more, pushing out new stuff orders of magnitudes faster) it will also lead to the rest of the world catching up faster and shrinking the pool of people internal to them who continually benefit compared to what actually went on with IBM. There's only so much upside when you join a company with hundreds-of-billions valuation. I guess the other part of their business plan bet was "become literal god of AGI". Maybe it'll still happen!
  - antonvs 3mo ago
    > “become literal god of AGI” That only lasts until the AGI decides their god would be more useful if turned into paperclips.
- hangonhn 3mo ago
  Yeah I feel like China and their OSS model companies really did the world a great service by ensuring closed source US companies don't have an monopoly on LLMs and thus capture all the value of AI development and its impact on society. It's not going to be the foundational labs that will capture all the value -- I'm sure they will do just fine. A lot of it now will flow to the companies providing the inferences and since no one has any exclusive deals, those companies will have to compete and drive the price down, which ultimately benefits the rest of us.
safety1st 3mo ago
We intentionally use both Codex and Claude on our team so that we can compare and contrast. We are reasonably serious about delivering work that has been reviewed and tested with humans who are at a minimum steering that process, at maximum doing it the good old fashioned way. I feel like the Claude guy tends to overproduce, like it just loves to go beyond the spec, add embellishments we didn't ask for, all this generates a ton more code which may or may not be necessary, and in certain areas of the product like UX this may be fine but in sensitive business logic it's a hard no, we need to throw it out and rewrite. I see much less of this with Codex and I look forward to trying an open model when we have time. Personally my Claude subscription is languishing, I won't say it has zero uses but as a relative Claude latecomer I just feel like the style it produces is just not what I'm looking for. Claude feels more like gambling, that's what it is. Built for the vibe coder.

kansm 3mo ago

[dead]

ThePinion 3mo ago

Do you use DeepSeek for both planning and building or do you have a preferred builder? I've been looking into moving from Cursor to OpenCode, or at least have Opencode for when my allocated usage for the month is done.

surgical_fire 3mo ago

I use Claude at work; provided by my employer. I pay DeepSeek on a personal capacity. I honestly have a better experience using DeepSeek, in part because since the cost is lower I feel more free to experiment with it. But in part because the model is excellent, and can handle everything I throw at it in a collaborative manner. I am really excited for when V4 is out of preview and they are done with all the post-training bit.

Incipient 3mo ago

I'm genuinely curious how you can do this - with limited context tokens, I find the output is often inconsistent with the project, or recreates functionality it missed, if I forget to point it at every pertinent object/library/etc it will need.

Gigachad 3mo ago
Tbh I have only used it on small personal projects and some open source stuff so I haven’t done any crazy stress tests or benchmarks. But for my use case it was great.

h8hawk 3mo ago

I found Mimo 2.5 Pro to be the right balance between cost and intelligence. It costs the same as DeepSeek v4 Pro, but it's better overall by a small margin.