Norman Wildberger is a required mention on this topic. Here's a great discussion on Curt Jaimungal's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7LvgvunVCM http

Norman Wildberger is a required mention on this topic. Here's a great discussion on Curt Jaimungal's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7LvgvunVCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7LvgvunVCM And a good debate on the topic with Daniel Rubin, who takes the more orthodox position: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edh5bbgSKqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edh5bbgSKqo Wildberger has tons more on this topic on his own channel. His arguments are thought-provoking, even if you don't agree with them.