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Maybe a lot of people actually agree with him, and would rather we expect more of people, rather than simply defining criminal activity as an unconscious effect
by xp84 3mo ago
Maybe a lot of people actually agree with him, and would rather we expect more of people, rather than simply defining criminal activity as an unconscious effect of one's being somehow oppressed, or one's great-great-grandparents being oppressed, or whatever.
The culture in question have been infamous for centuries for their value system which is incompatible with most others. Just as it's okay for devout Islamists to find the whole American value system disgusting and want nothing to do with it, it's okay for DHH and other Westerners to find the Roma value system disgusting. It's a belief system they choose, it's not something like skin that people cannot change.
In America there's a lot of ethical ambiguity given how recently most current residents' ancestors arrived. But in Denmark? Did the Roma build that society? (Possible) EU citizenship aside, I find it hard to judge Danes who feel that ethically, they don't have a right to degrade that society with crime and vagrancy. Same as I don't blame English people who don't like certain things going on there.
The article being referred to says "When gypsies take over public spaces, you deport them" - it doesn't say "you deport everyone of that race," it's about the people causing problems. If you allow literally any behavior, no matter how antisocial, bad actors will ruin everything for everyone. Only the most obtuse person doesn't recognize the truth of that, deep down.
- dash2 3mo ago> okay for DHH and other Westerners to find the Roma value system disgusting. The Nazis murdered about a million gypsies so “finding a whole value system disgusting” can lead to some quite dark places.
- xp84 3mo agoBy that logic, how can we even justify finding Nazi ideology disgusting? "Sure, a lot of Nazis committed a ton of heinous crimes, and their value system told them it was good and proper to do so, but some of them are probably nice people who didn't commit murder!" To be clear my point is that not all cultures are equally good - due to their different value systems. Pretending they are always leads to the most harmful, unfair, and cruel ones taking advantage of the most trusting ones. Again, nobody here is arguing for harming anyone, nor for taking any action at all towards those of that ancestry that aren't doing the crimes. But I'd be all for deporting those that do.
- evanelias 3mo agoIf some individuals are committing crimes, why isn't the normal criminal justice system the answer, instead of deportation? And deport them to where exactly, and on what justification? They've been in Europe for a thousand years and are effectively stateless.
- dash2 3mo agoI don't think most gypsies are stateless.
- evanelias 3mo agoI meant in the sense that Roma are an ethnicity lacking their own sovereign state, "stateless" as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_nation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_nation
- dash2 3mo agoOK. But then the answer to your initial question would be "deported to their home countries".
- evanelias 3mo agoWhich is where, exactly, for the people in question? i.e. what is the legal home country for most Roma in Denmark? Given folks like DHH have such strong opinions about this, I would expect they should be able to detail the specifics of the mass deportation plan they're proposing!
- dash2 3mo agoPresumably, if they are immigrants, then they have a passport and a legal home country. I agree with you that mass deportation (i.e. deportation of a whole group not based on individual guilt or innocence) is bad. Just saying that this particular argument isn't relevant.