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> Normal working families with kids live next to these parks and rely on them as open space, it is part of the Danish socialist welfare system and care for the

by saghm 3mo ago

> Normal working families with kids live next to these parks and rely on them as open space, it is part of the Danish socialist welfare system and care for the working man. Defacation and open cooking plus thrash by not your own weak but foreigners has real cost to those that can’t afford to move. The article made it pretty clear that they're not arguing against deporting people who are camping in parks though, and just arguing against generalizing the issue as being about the entire ethnic group. Are you claiming that somehow having a communal kin based socialist society makes it impossible to have, using the term in the article, "individuated enforcement"?

vikingly 3mo ago
The question asked in Scandinavia is if a migrant group is a net benefit to our ability to have group solidarity, while high skill individuals are judged on individual merit. These are two very different categories, and Scandinavians do not feel an obligation towards a world collective within their borders. The group talked about here came in through mass migration and are in group conflict with working peoples interest in having safe communal open spaces, while being a net negative contributor to public pools of resources used to help the average man and disproportionately contributing to theft. From a Scandinavian perspective you choose group solidarity with your own working man over the stranger that did not come in through high skill merit.
- saghm 3mo ago
  This doesn't really make sense to me, You're claiming that it's fine to hand-wave the issue of deporting the entire ethnic group as a whole rather than individuals because it has no high-skill members, but that doesn't really explain why you're so convinced that there are no individuals who might be able to contribute other than from assumptions about them based on them being a member of the ethnic group in the first place (e.g. "mass migration", taking up resources, disproportionately contributing to theft). That seems bizarrely at odds with the allusion to judging people by merit rather than bucketing them by shared ethnicity at the end of your comment.
  - vikingly 3mo ago
    What makes Scandinavians responsible for judging merit of individuals in or even allowing a specific group in? All border control is group based. It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in, especially a group that culturally conflict with ours in ways that violate our social contract and ability to provide basic standards of living to our own kin.
    - saghm 3mo ago
      > It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in But they're already in, legally, according to the laws you defined? It's hard to believe that you have such a well-defined social contract that literally everyone agrees that means you can't let in people of another ethnic group if the laws made by the people you suggest literally don't support mass deporting everyone who fits into the group you mention.
      - vikingly 3mo ago
        A lot of it comes through EU laws, which was agreed to with the assumption of a different population mix in the Schengen free flow of people. Same with migrants brought in through exploited asylum laws which again assumed small numbers from neighboring countries with similar cultures. Scandinavia is in a much better spot than the UK, which voted in favor of brexit to stop flow and instead received replacement migration.
        saghm 3mo ago
        At this point, it seems like you're just arguing "nobody in Scandanavia wanted them to come and we got tricked" as a universally agreed upon societal opinion. I guess it's possible, but it's impossible to distinguish from you projecting your own personal views across the entire society because you already strongly believe in the idea of everyone being on the same page about everything. Maybe it's my bias as someone from a society without that level of social cohesion, but I have trouble imagining literally everyone being in agreement on what's acceptable but somehow not managing to notice that something different was happening until too late rather than some people having exaggerating views of how much everyone else agreed with them, since the latter is something I've seen incredibly often, and the former is not something I've ever seen actually happen in practice.

by saghm 3mo ago

vikingly 3mo ago

The question asked in Scandinavia is if a migrant group is a net benefit to our ability to have group solidarity, while high skill individuals are judged on individual merit. These are two very different categories, and Scandinavians do not feel an obligation towards a world collective within their borders. The group talked about here came in through mass migration and are in group conflict with working peoples interest in having safe communal open spaces, while being a net negative contributor to public pools of resources used to help the average man and disproportionately contributing to theft. From a Scandinavian perspective you choose group solidarity with your own working man over the stranger that did not come in through high skill merit.

saghm 3mo ago
This doesn't really make sense to me, You're claiming that it's fine to hand-wave the issue of deporting the entire ethnic group as a whole rather than individuals because it has no high-skill members, but that doesn't really explain why you're so convinced that there are no individuals who might be able to contribute other than from assumptions about them based on them being a member of the ethnic group in the first place (e.g. "mass migration", taking up resources, disproportionately contributing to theft). That seems bizarrely at odds with the allusion to judging people by merit rather than bucketing them by shared ethnicity at the end of your comment.
- vikingly 3mo ago
  What makes Scandinavians responsible for judging merit of individuals in or even allowing a specific group in? All border control is group based. It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in, especially a group that culturally conflict with ours in ways that violate our social contract and ability to provide basic standards of living to our own kin.
  - saghm 3mo ago
    > It’s our country and we have no obligation to let anyone in But they're already in, legally, according to the laws you defined? It's hard to believe that you have such a well-defined social contract that literally everyone agrees that means you can't let in people of another ethnic group if the laws made by the people you suggest literally don't support mass deporting everyone who fits into the group you mention.
    - vikingly 3mo ago
      A lot of it comes through EU laws, which was agreed to with the assumption of a different population mix in the Schengen free flow of people. Same with migrants brought in through exploited asylum laws which again assumed small numbers from neighboring countries with similar cultures. Scandinavia is in a much better spot than the UK, which voted in favor of brexit to stop flow and instead received replacement migration.
      - saghm 3mo ago
        At this point, it seems like you're just arguing "nobody in Scandanavia wanted them to come and we got tricked" as a universally agreed upon societal opinion. I guess it's possible, but it's impossible to distinguish from you projecting your own personal views across the entire society because you already strongly believe in the idea of everyone being on the same page about everything. Maybe it's my bias as someone from a society without that level of social cohesion, but I have trouble imagining literally everyone being in agreement on what's acceptable but somehow not managing to notice that something different was happening until too late rather than some people having exaggerating views of how much everyone else agreed with them, since the latter is something I've seen incredibly often, and the former is not something I've ever seen actually happen in practice.