4 ms·

Wero shows that marketing is everything. It's just regular bank transactions with a much larger fee. We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free

Wero shows that marketing is everything. It's just regular bank transactions with a much larger fee. We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead.

fsuts 2mo ago
Wero’s website says they don’t charge fees So who is charging the fees?
- xlii 2mo ago
  They most likely don't charge fees on consumer. Usually the fee is on merchant (and it's few % depending on region regulations etc.) Payment providers such as Wero are doing direct bank transfer, which is usually fee-less, but then they can afford to put a on-merchant fee that's much lower than what credit card companies are charging. Thus the model is win-win-win: Consumer doesn't pay more, Merchant pays less, and Wero gets their share.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Card fee in EU is maximum 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit. By law. Card companies hated this. They said they'd lose money and have to pull out of the EU entirely if it passed. Turns out, they lied!
- jjice 2mo ago
  Free for individuals, but paid if you're the business it seems from what I've found? If that's the case, it seems to be the same as a card in the US and I wouldn't be surprised if some businesses try to pass it on like they do with cards. [0] https://www.mollie.com/growth/wero-payment-guide#:~:text=However%2C%20banks%20might,different%20from%20cards. https://www.mollie.com/growth/wero-payment-guide#:~:text=How... [1] https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/faq/how-much-does-wero-cost#:~:text=Wero%20is%20a,specific%20fees.%20These https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/faq/how-much-does-...
  - rodrigodlu 2mo ago
    Pix is Brazil is also paid by the merchants. ~0.33%. Individuals is completely free. You can transfer even to people without bank accounts (and withdraw on places like corner shops and authorized merchants). For companies certain transfers are free. eg: my company pays nothing, since I'm not a merchant, one of the banks tried to charge once and I just changed to another that offered 0% in return for keeping investments there. Some banks offer extra services like POS machines with instant confirmation and so on (so the POS employee don't need access to the company bank account). How much is in this case?
- dinkelberg 2mo ago
  The payment service provider (like Stripe or Adyen).
- weberer 2mo ago
  >Our pricing is clear and merchant-friendly: a small percentage fee with built-in caps https://wero-wallet.eu/e-m-commerce https://wero-wallet.eu/e-m-commerce So they charge a fee, but they don't specify what a "small percentage" is.
  - carlosjobim 2mo ago
    > Our pricing is clear and merchant-friendly: a small percentage fee with built-in caps That's why it's impossible to find on that link what their fee is. It's so clear that it's invisible.
Semaphor 2mo ago
I mean, that was always possible and many offered that. Wero offers the PayPal style integrated flow, QR code scanning from your banking app is slightly higher friction
masklinn 2mo ago
> We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead. Technically you can anyway, I used that a few months ago. Bank app support is the big impediment (https://epc-qr.eu/bankreviews/ https://epc-qr.eu/bankreviews/)
- Muromec 2mo ago
  We don't support shit until the regular strongly suggests we do and then it takes about three years to do pretty much nothing, but perfectly on time (not on time actually, ts' a lie)
  - masklinn 2mo ago
    I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say.
dewey 2mo ago
Not really, the UX is the differentiator. That's why neobanks like N26 are popular as you can just send money to your friends via email / phone number but it only works if they are on the same bank. With Wero it's across all banks, building on the recent instant transfer that is being rolled out quickly while still having the same, familiar UX as PayPal or other apps like that while being a EU solution.
- dinkelberg 2mo ago
  There's two functions of Wero: peer-to-peer and consumer-to-business transactions. TFA is about consumer-to-business. If you look at the video for how Wero online payments work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5_X3oSgHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5_X3oSgHM), you'll see that an EPC QR code could just as well be used (with a banking app installed instead of Wero). With Wero you probably also get automatic processing of the incoming payment, without having to connect the financial transaction to a purchase yourself. But payment through bank transfers is also available through the payment service providers and costs less than Wero (at least it costs less when using Mollie; the Stripe fee is the same for Wero and bank transfer, and Adyen apparently hasn't published the Wero fee yet). So you'd still get the same service for less money.
omnimus 2mo ago
As always with standards EPC QR is not only one in europe. In Czechia for example the QR codes are extremely popular but since they were introduced before EPC QR they are in SPAYD format. I think they became popular because instant payments between czech banks were introduced sooner than in the SEPA network. Maybe that's why they were separate formats BUT afaik even SPAYD uses IBAN account numbers. So I have no idea why there are both of these, they are just syntax. The main difference being that SPAYD is key:value pair separated by * and EPC is fixed position, line delimited. I personally think SPAYD is more human readable and extensible BUT i guess less efficient. Not that it would matter i would prefer the one that's universal.
jojomodding 2mo ago
They just need to have smaller fees than Visa/Mastercard. Paying by SEPA direct debit in a store checkout situation seems insane. Even with instant payments it can take 20 seconds which is too long. Add to that the fact that users need to log into their online banking and the unfair leveling of risk onto the consumer.
- dinkelberg 2mo ago
  SEPA guarantees the payment to arrive within 10 seconds. Same with Wero, because it uses SEPA. It doesn't work like the card companies that authorize payments before they are settled.

Wero shows that marketing is everything. It's just regular bank transactions with a much larger fee. We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead.

fsuts 2mo ago

Wero’s website says they don’t charge fees So who is charging the fees?

xlii 2mo ago
They most likely don't charge fees on consumer. Usually the fee is on merchant (and it's few % depending on region regulations etc.) Payment providers such as Wero are doing direct bank transfer, which is usually fee-less, but then they can afford to put a on-merchant fee that's much lower than what credit card companies are charging. Thus the model is win-win-win: Consumer doesn't pay more, Merchant pays less, and Wero gets their share.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Card fee in EU is maximum 0.2% for debit and 0.3% for credit. By law. Card companies hated this. They said they'd lose money and have to pull out of the EU entirely if it passed. Turns out, they lied!
jjice 2mo ago
Free for individuals, but paid if you're the business it seems from what I've found? If that's the case, it seems to be the same as a card in the US and I wouldn't be surprised if some businesses try to pass it on like they do with cards. [0] https://www.mollie.com/growth/wero-payment-guide#:~:text=However%2C%20banks%20might,different%20from%20cards. https://www.mollie.com/growth/wero-payment-guide#:~:text=How... [1] https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/faq/how-much-does-wero-cost#:~:text=Wero%20is%20a,specific%20fees.%20These https://www.bnpparibasfortis.be/en/public/faq/how-much-does-...
- rodrigodlu 2mo ago
  Pix is Brazil is also paid by the merchants. ~0.33%. Individuals is completely free. You can transfer even to people without bank accounts (and withdraw on places like corner shops and authorized merchants). For companies certain transfers are free. eg: my company pays nothing, since I'm not a merchant, one of the banks tried to charge once and I just changed to another that offered 0% in return for keeping investments there. Some banks offer extra services like POS machines with instant confirmation and so on (so the POS employee don't need access to the company bank account). How much is in this case?
dinkelberg 2mo ago
The payment service provider (like Stripe or Adyen).
weberer 2mo ago
>Our pricing is clear and merchant-friendly: a small percentage fee with built-in caps https://wero-wallet.eu/e-m-commerce https://wero-wallet.eu/e-m-commerce So they charge a fee, but they don't specify what a "small percentage" is.
- carlosjobim 2mo ago
  > Our pricing is clear and merchant-friendly: a small percentage fee with built-in caps That's why it's impossible to find on that link what their fee is. It's so clear that it's invisible.

Semaphor 2mo ago

I mean, that was always possible and many offered that. Wero offers the PayPal style integrated flow, QR code scanning from your banking app is slightly higher friction

masklinn 2mo ago

> We could have had EPC QR codes and similar completely free technologies instead. Technically you can anyway, I used that a few months ago. Bank app support is the big impediment (https://epc-qr.eu/bankreviews/ https://epc-qr.eu/bankreviews/)

Muromec 2mo ago
We don't support shit until the regular strongly suggests we do and then it takes about three years to do pretty much nothing, but perfectly on time (not on time actually, ts' a lie)
- masklinn 2mo ago
  I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say.

dewey 2mo ago

Not really, the UX is the differentiator. That's why neobanks like N26 are popular as you can just send money to your friends via email / phone number but it only works if they are on the same bank. With Wero it's across all banks, building on the recent instant transfer that is being rolled out quickly while still having the same, familiar UX as PayPal or other apps like that while being a EU solution.

dinkelberg 2mo ago
There's two functions of Wero: peer-to-peer and consumer-to-business transactions. TFA is about consumer-to-business. If you look at the video for how Wero online payments work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5_X3oSgHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu5_X3oSgHM), you'll see that an EPC QR code could just as well be used (with a banking app installed instead of Wero). With Wero you probably also get automatic processing of the incoming payment, without having to connect the financial transaction to a purchase yourself. But payment through bank transfers is also available through the payment service providers and costs less than Wero (at least it costs less when using Mollie; the Stripe fee is the same for Wero and bank transfer, and Adyen apparently hasn't published the Wero fee yet). So you'd still get the same service for less money.

omnimus 2mo ago

As always with standards EPC QR is not only one in europe. In Czechia for example the QR codes are extremely popular but since they were introduced before EPC QR they are in SPAYD format. I think they became popular because instant payments between czech banks were introduced sooner than in the SEPA network. Maybe that's why they were separate formats BUT afaik even SPAYD uses IBAN account numbers. So I have no idea why there are both of these, they are just syntax. The main difference being that SPAYD is key:value pair separated by * and EPC is fixed position, line delimited. I personally think SPAYD is more human readable and extensible BUT i guess less efficient. Not that it would matter i would prefer the one that's universal.

jojomodding 2mo ago

They just need to have smaller fees than Visa/Mastercard. Paying by SEPA direct debit in a store checkout situation seems insane. Even with instant payments it can take 20 seconds which is too long. Add to that the fact that users need to log into their online banking and the unfair leveling of risk onto the consumer.

dinkelberg 2mo ago
SEPA guarantees the payment to arrive within 10 seconds. Same with Wero, because it uses SEPA. It doesn't work like the card companies that authorize payments before they are settled.