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Tesla Model S 60kWh Gets Official EPA Ratings
- zefhous 14y agoAnyone know the weight difference between the three configurations? Haven't found it anywhere. The curb weight of the 85 kWh model is 4,647 lbs, I wonder how much of that is the battery. I suspect the weight to be the main difference in efficiency, though each configuration (as well as the 85 kWh performance version) has different specs for Peak Motor Power and Peak Motor Torque. Also, I wonder if power/torque differences between models are because they're using a different powertrain in each model or if it's an electrical (or perhaps software) limitation. I'd love to know if anybody knows more about these things...
- headShrinker 14y agoThis doesn't really address your questions but it's interesting none the less. I talked to a rep at a Tesla showroom. Surprisingly, the models seem to all weigh the same amount. The weight was maintained a specific number so the car could maintain it's 5 star crash test rating... He speculated that some of the weight was in the form of actual weights.
- cynwoody 14y ago>He speculated that some of the weight was in the form of actual weights. If true, that would appear to suggest an obvious after-market performance mod.
- stcredzero 14y ago> an obvious after-market performance mod. With the probable traditionally detrimental effects on ride and handling.
- sbierwagen 14y agoThat is enormously unlikely.
- tsotha 14y agoMore likely to be the battery pack. You can trade kWh for manufacturability and materials cost.
- veemjeem 14y agowho knows, maybe they all use the identical motor, but there's a few solder bridges that prevent you from going as fast as the expensive models... cars that can be overclocked would be interesting.
- stcredzero 14y agoCalling such cars "overclocked" would be just as technically apt as calling clock-speed enhanced CPUs "turbo."
- furyofantares 14y agoMy 286 had a turbo button that bumped it from 8MHz to 10MHz.
- stcredzero 14y agoIt was just as terrible then as it is now.
- jlgreco 14y agoThe "MPGe" thing seems very silly, particularly since if I were using this car 99% of it's power could be coming from hydro/nuclear/wind. Surely there must be a better way of comparing efficiency and environmental friendliness.
- veemjeem 14y agoAgreed. There are quite a few motorcycles that can get around 95 mpg. It would still cost around $18 for a full tank of gas in a motorcycle, but probably only $3 for a full tank in the tesla. If they based mpg on dollars spent per distance provided, the tesla would get around 550 mpg.
- scarmig 14y agoIn reality, once you get to a certain level of efficiency, it's something of a moot point anyway. Both money-wise and emission-wise, there are likely much costlier areas to focus your efficiency increasing efforts than your vehicle. (Range, on the other hand, still has large gains to be had.)
- jlgreco 14y agoYeah, I guess an issue is getting consumers to understand that while a high MPG is better than a low MPG, having no MPG is even better. Consumers want easy presentable numbers to compare, so they can feel like they have a grasp on the difference.
- timdorr 14y ago> if I were using this car 99% of it's power could be coming from hydro/nuclear/wind. Actually, solar, since that's what is powering the free Supercharger network going up over the next few years: http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
- jlgreco 14y agoFair enough, though with my usage patterns most of the charging would be done in my garage. ;)
- drcube 14y agoSo the MPG rating is based on the power plant emissions per mile's worth of energy consumed by the vehicle and comparing that with gasoline emissions? That's great, but like most consumers I want the MPG based on miles per dollars. For example, if I can drive 100 miles on ~$3.50 worth of electricity (or whatever a gallon of gas costs these days), it would be comparable to 100 mpg. Does Tesla or anyone else put out these numbers?
- dbaupp 14y ago$4 - $8 per 100 mi. Using 38 kWh/100 mi (from the article), and estimating electricity to be .1-.2 USD/kWh from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Global_electricity_price_comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing#Global_ele...
- veemjeem 14y agoWouldn't that be a bit too variable to estimate? If you charge your car during the day, it would cost a lot more than charging at night. I think in the bay area, it's around 5 cents per kWh in commercial zones during off-peak hours, so a full "tank" for the 60kWh battery pack would cost you around $3 -- that's almost the cost of half a gallon of gas!
- cynwoody 14y agoFor the 60 kwh model, 60 kwh would go 171 miles, so that's 1.75¢ per mile. (Although Tesla claims a range of 300 miles at 55 mph.) I didn't know off-peak rates were so cheap.
- nsxwolf 14y agoWhen everyone starts to buy electric cars, won't we start getting closer to 24 peak hours a day?
- epistasis 14y agoInteresting question! Obviously this isn't a problem that's going to happen any time soon. But if you look at a random day of usage for the California ISO (actually, the only one I could find) [1], peak load was 30,000 MW and between midnight and 6AM load was around 22,000 MW. So that's 48,000 MWh, or 48,000,000 KWh, and at 100miles/38KWh, that's 126 million miles of excess capacity in those hours on the West coast. If the average commute is ~30 miles round trip, that's 4 million commuters in California, just from current excess capacity at night time. Needless to say, it will be a while before Tesla ships 1 million cars in California, much less 4 million. http://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/mkt-electric/california/CAISO-rto-dly-rpt.pdf http://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/mkt-electric/california...
- revelation 14y agoI don't quite understand. Where do environmental factors come into play with MPGe? I thought its a plain measure of energy.
- duskwuff 14y agoRemember that the "G" in "MPG" stands for "gallons" (of gasoline or diesel fuel). When your car runs on electricity, the measurement no longer applies directly, so a conversion is used to treat "gallons" as a proxy for pollution.
- redwood 14y agoI don't think it's pollution they're looking at here: it's cost. E.g. the cost to go the equivalent distance as the cost of a gallon for an otherwise equivalent car. Perhaps I'm wrong. But bringing emissions in adds significant value to the electric option: value not yet realized since externalities like CO2 emissions are not currently paid for.
- fleitz 14y agoTrying to wrap my head around these numbers, I see the rate 35 KWh / 100 miles which suggests to me you could take a 100 mile drive for about $4.50 (11 cents per KWh and 15% extra for charging inefficiency)
- nilsbunger 14y agoYes, that's right... Electric cars are generally cheaper per mile to run. But power rates vary wildly all over the place, so your running cost and mine might be a factor of 2x-3x different. For us in california, normal PG&E rates go up to $0.30/KWh and beyond in an average household (they are tiered like income tax rates are). But with an electric car, you are eligible for a time-of-use metering plan, where night-time (12 midnight to 7am) is very cheap -- $0.05-$0.09 per KWh -- but weekday daytime in the summer is painful at ~$0.50 per KWh. So if you remember to set a timer to charge at night, it's cheap! You can look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_pricing and sort the table by pricing to get a sense of the huge variance in electricity costs around the world.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoYes, so in the more typical 3 gallons of gas car (33.3 mpg) that would set you back $9-$12 you pay half as much for the energy But electricity, like gas prices, varies. A more interesting way to look at it from my perspective is that each 'mile' has an energy cost of 4.5 cents vs 9 cents. And in a 10,000 mile year that is $450 not spent. There are still a lot of unknowns in terms to total cost of ownership, battery pack replacement, other maintenance. edit: $450! Just made it in under the wire. Thanks.
- KaeseEs 14y agoThat's a difference of $450, not $4,500.
- richiezc 14y agoThis is really strange, at the factory test drive last year I spoke with the head of engineering on the Model S and he said the battery backs for 60 and 85kWh were the same size but with different formulations. Only the 40kWh was supposed to have a smaller battery pack, in fact if you upgraded the 40kWh pack you'd need to change the suspension.
- dhughes 14y agoStill too expensive and too limited for my taste but I guess someone will buy it. In Canada there is such long distances between towns and cities I can't imagine being limited to 480km ideal would be 1,000km. The deal breaker (besides the $70,000)is not being able to charge it except at home even at 5 hours with the 20KW charger is still too long. Plus living in a snowy land where in winter you can see your gas gauge move you use so much fuel heating the car, spinning wheels, knobby snow tires. People seem to see vehicles as just another device like a new phone or TV I don't doubt they'll become more popular and drop in price.
- JshWright 14y ago> Still too expensive and too limited for my taste but I guess someone will buy it. > . . . I don't doubt they'll become more popular and drop in price. That's exactly Telsa's (stated) plan. Phase 1 was the Roadster. The Roadster was made in small numbers, using very "hands on" construction methods. It was very expensive, but it was designed to feel and perform like a very high end vehicle. For people who can drop $150k on a car (and there are more of those sorts of people than you might think), the Roadster was a very competitive option Phase 2 is the Model S. The production line for the Model S is a lot more automated, and production runs are larger, resulting in a vehicle that is fairly competitive "mid range" luxury vehicles (e.g. the BMW 6 series). Phase 3 will be a more "average consumer" targeted vehicle. Taking advantage of the lessons learned (and to some extent, the capital raised) in the first two phases.
- angstrom 14y agoPhase 2a Model S Phase 2b Model X At some point there is supposed to be a refresh of Roadster (model R) using the model S drive train. Probably itching to make the car for the masses the Tesla Model T (trademarked?).
- dhughes 14y agoNissan is already doing that with the Leaf but it's still too limited I think only ~120km-160km per full charge. Although I do like the solar panel roof option to trickle charge the car's batteries. The ~160km is misleading though because heating the car in winter and in southern climates cooling the car must require a lot of power.