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I think it is an American thing; a principled grounded in many Americans not actually believing people like you when they claim "that isn't being suggested". Mo

I think it is an American thing; a principled grounded in many Americans not actually believing people like you when they claim "that isn't being suggested". Moralistic arguments that using air conditioning is harmful to society (which certainly exist in America, even if they're more common in Europe) are the rhetorical basis for actual laws regulating the use of air conditioning and trying to legally discourage its use as a matter of government policy. I have learned via European heat wave discourse that there are actually a surprising number of building regulations in various places in Europe that restrict or ban the installation and/or use of air conditioning. These kinds of laws are less common in the US, but there's definitely vocal energy conservation activists who would like to see more of them enacted here. And those are the people who the "you'll pry it from my cold dead fingers" types are opposing.

customguy 3mo ago
> Moralistic arguments that using air conditioning is harmful to society Can you name one? That isn't the same argument as against all needless waste? What I'm seeing is we can't even talk about shutter designs without talking about AC instead. Using AC may not harm society, but some people knowing about it kinda does.
- vladvasiliu 3mo ago
  The moralistic argument here in France is that the AC units heat the outside air, which worsens things for people outside, especially those who can't afford AC in their home. Never mind that these same people would go absolutely out of their minds if you suggested tearing down and remodeling most cities, which are basically radiators at night since there's concrete everywhere. So instead of trying to somehow mitigate the issue of "AC heating the outside air", by, for example, installing the outside units on top of the buildings, so most heat wouldn't be at street level where people walk around, many people who can't breathe in their apartments just use portable ACs which dump the heat right outside their windows. Bonus points for these being very unefficient, so now electricity consumption is even higher. In the specific case of France, they also tend to forget that most of our electricity is essentially carbon-free.
  - customguy 3mo ago
    > so now electricity consumption is even higher Which is not great because it's wasteful, so you're making the same "moralistic argument". Unless your point is just that it's hypocritical, of course.
    - vladvasiliu 2mo ago
      I'm not sure I'd say it's hypocritical. More like unintended consequences? Part of the moralistic argument against planned AC rollout is electricity consumption. But not doing it is actually generating more consumption in practice.
benj111 3mo ago
Yeah but I don't get why it's so defensive. Sure some people are against AC for reasons, and some people are for a, for reasons. I don't see why that has to turn into an ideological battle. Discuss the issues, don't just ignore everything that's perceived as coming from the other side. Yes this is probably getting into issues of American politics. But talking about shutters doesn't have to turn into an ideological battle.

customguy 3mo ago

> Moralistic arguments that using air conditioning is harmful to society Can you name one? That isn't the same argument as against all needless waste? What I'm seeing is we can't even talk about shutter designs without talking about AC instead. Using AC may not harm society, but some people knowing about it kinda does.

vladvasiliu 3mo ago
The moralistic argument here in France is that the AC units heat the outside air, which worsens things for people outside, especially those who can't afford AC in their home. Never mind that these same people would go absolutely out of their minds if you suggested tearing down and remodeling most cities, which are basically radiators at night since there's concrete everywhere. So instead of trying to somehow mitigate the issue of "AC heating the outside air", by, for example, installing the outside units on top of the buildings, so most heat wouldn't be at street level where people walk around, many people who can't breathe in their apartments just use portable ACs which dump the heat right outside their windows. Bonus points for these being very unefficient, so now electricity consumption is even higher. In the specific case of France, they also tend to forget that most of our electricity is essentially carbon-free.
- customguy 3mo ago
  > so now electricity consumption is even higher Which is not great because it's wasteful, so you're making the same "moralistic argument". Unless your point is just that it's hypocritical, of course.
  - vladvasiliu 2mo ago
    I'm not sure I'd say it's hypocritical. More like unintended consequences? Part of the moralistic argument against planned AC rollout is electricity consumption. But not doing it is actually generating more consumption in practice.

benj111 3mo ago

Yeah but I don't get why it's so defensive. Sure some people are against AC for reasons, and some people are for a, for reasons. I don't see why that has to turn into an ideological battle. Discuss the issues, don't just ignore everything that's perceived as coming from the other side. Yes this is probably getting into issues of American politics. But talking about shutters doesn't have to turn into an ideological battle.