4 ms·

> "Breakfast food programs originate" Ok? I mentioned breakfasts because it's a successful program that's delivering results and underscores the distinction be

by roc 14y ago

> "Breakfast food programs originate" Ok? I mentioned breakfasts because it's a successful program that's delivering results and underscores the distinction between what can look, on paper, like "Administrators want to throw more hours of instruction at students" and what is, in reality, more about schools deriving results from decidedly non-instruction services. But good on the BPP for creating a positive social program and good on the school administrators who took a successful model and pushed it out to even more students. > "This is a contradiction" No, it's drawing a distinction between "instruction" and "school hours". To give context to seemingly counter-intuitive policy proposals. > "test scores are not a reliable way to gauge student learning and success." Agreed. And, again, I'm not promoting The Way It Should Be. I'm giving context to The Way It Is. And, tragically enough, US schools aren't measured by outcomes, they're measured by test scores. Until that changes, any hypothetical administrator who prioritized outcomes over test scores would either have to mask that priority and sell every policy based on some impact on test scores, or find themselves replaced. [1] > "those issues need to be addressed in a direct way rather than try to provide band aid fixes via a school system" I absolutely agree. And I vote for such policies every chance I get. But, until my neighbors and countrymen deliver a mandate for solutions [2], I'm not about to advocate we do nothing nor chastise and criticize schools for doing what they can around the edges. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. I'm saying school systems are in a horrible bind. They can do this and have some limited positive impact, they can follow a Scandinavian model which would exacerbate the effect of the socio-economic problems, or they can do nothing and sit idly as the human suffering continues to mount. It's all just context one needs to keep in mind when they look at US school "reform" proposals and wonder why we'd (continue to) push things that are at odds with how better-performing school systems operate. [1] Often enough, around here, they find themselves replaced by Charter Schools who are unaccountable for outcomes or test scores and are measured only by profits. [2] At this point it's fight-enough to defend what limited solutions currently exist.

king_jester 14y ago
For the breakfast programs issue, I wanted to point out an important aspect of the history of those programs: they were created to respond to a need that those communities had by individuals outside of the country or state government school system. When we talk about the issues with US education, we have to realize that many of those issues are caused or made worse by the top-down nature of implementing policy. As you rightly point out, those policies don't necessarily (or usually, even) come from within communities to address their specific needs. Indeed a lot of current state and federal policy revolves around more top down influence: using standardized tests to remove individual consideration of performance, replacing experienced teachers with less experienced teachers to reduce money spent on salaries and benefits, attempting to template-ize teaching curriculums instead of relying on teacher's professional training and experience, opening more state and federal dollars to charter schools (which as you point out have less oversight and accountability even by current metrics). When we talk about the Scandinavian model, those things are essential to helping to address the needs of communities most harmed by the aforementioned policies. We need more professionalism from staff, more opportunity for people in those communities to shape the programs that serve students. School systems were never designed to be social services institutions that attempt to alleviate all of the social ills that exist in the community. Since schools currently do not accomplish that kind of a mission, to increase the school day and push for more time in school is a form a punishment where you are intentionally removed from your community, family, and friends for simply existing in a poor community (a community that is likely to be color, no less).

by roc 14y ago

king_jester 14y ago

For the breakfast programs issue, I wanted to point out an important aspect of the history of those programs: they were created to respond to a need that those communities had by individuals outside of the country or state government school system. When we talk about the issues with US education, we have to realize that many of those issues are caused or made worse by the top-down nature of implementing policy. As you rightly point out, those policies don't necessarily (or usually, even) come from within communities to address their specific needs. Indeed a lot of current state and federal policy revolves around more top down influence: using standardized tests to remove individual consideration of performance, replacing experienced teachers with less experienced teachers to reduce money spent on salaries and benefits, attempting to template-ize teaching curriculums instead of relying on teacher's professional training and experience, opening more state and federal dollars to charter schools (which as you point out have less oversight and accountability even by current metrics). When we talk about the Scandinavian model, those things are essential to helping to address the needs of communities most harmed by the aforementioned policies. We need more professionalism from staff, more opportunity for people in those communities to shape the programs that serve students. School systems were never designed to be social services institutions that attempt to alleviate all of the social ills that exist in the community. Since schools currently do not accomplish that kind of a mission, to increase the school day and push for more time in school is a form a punishment where you are intentionally removed from your community, family, and friends for simply existing in a poor community (a community that is likely to be color, no less).