16 ms·

I'm sure that happens a lot; father is sterile so they use artificial insemination and they never let the kid know; is just that OP is one of the few who later

I'm sure that happens a lot; father is sterile so they use artificial insemination and they never let the kid know; is just that OP is one of the few who later found out.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
hop 14y ago
Yep, that's what happened. Also, procedures were different back then, so we could have many more siblings, hope we didn't hook up in college.
- mvleming 14y ago
  The percentages I've heard are all over the place, but a decent number of children are actually not genetically related to their fathers. (I've heard anywhere between 3% and 30%.) One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that compete for her egg, thereby increasing the chances that her children will have good genes.
  - mcherm 14y ago
    > One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that compete for her egg, thereby increasing the chances that her children will have good genes. That would be better expressed like this: > One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs. The speculation about the reason for the affairs is just silly. Seriously. This made-up pseudo-evolutionary explanations for things that are so popular really do not add anything. Try it: ask 10 different women who have had affairs what their reason was -- they are real, live human beings, so you can ask instead of just speculating. I'm guessing that 0% of those women will say "to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that competes for my egg".
    - iansimon 14y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation#In_biology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causatio...
    - eric-hu 14y ago
      My smirk apparently agrees with you. That pseudo-evolutionary statement reminds me of the mouse-over for this xkcd http://xkcd.com/685/ http://xkcd.com/685/
    - mvleming 14y ago
      If I asked you "Why do you take your hand off a hot stove?" you might say because it hurts. But the fact that it hurts for us when we put our hand on the stove is our genes trying to keep themselves alive, because otherwise they risk being killed. In the same way, a person might say they had an affair for whatever reason, but really its their genes who want to be able to pass on themselves. (Edited for clarity.)
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - justincormack 14y ago
        Not really. That's a theory and it is one that is hard to disprove experimentally. It is a much stronger theory than evolution, saying that every action is correctly designed to optimise gene transmission. Essentially it is trying to say that we are at a global maximum in a space that is probably more nonlinear. In fact our genes may well be suboptimal in some respects even if you think they have "control". The contortions people go through to try to justify homosexuality as a genetic thing are one example of many. In fact diversity is an advantage in a varying environment so many traits must be suboptimal.
        mvleming 14y ago
        I completely agree with you. I don't believe that every action is correctly designed to optimize gene transmissions and I think you put it into very eloquent words with: "it is trying to say that we are at a global maximum in a space that is probably more nonlinear." However, I think that there are certain actions that we take that are clearly defined by our genetics, like the fact that we eat, or that we have sex. And having affairs is one of those.
  - return0 14y ago
    This kind of rationalizing doesn't sound really serious. Does that not imply that women deceit their partners and are thus genetically predisposed liars? Also, if she has chosen a partner it means he (and his sperm) are better genetically. If anything, she should be avoiding others' (inferior) sperm.
    - hackinthebochs 14y ago
      The theory is that the woman would want the more hearty sperm, but also want the father who is more faithful and more able to provide. It's a sound evolutionary strategy.
      - return0 14y ago
        How is it sound? Bearing the children of a male that is not a proven provider is more risky than bearing the children of a proven provider (the children will thus be more likely to be providers themselves). The sperm competition would be based solely on sperm motility which is a very poor indicator of evolutionary advantage.
        cma 14y ago
        What would favor having a proven provider son? A faithful proven provider son will produce at most 6 or 7 grandchildren for his mom, an unfaithful cheat might produce an order of magnitude more.
        hackinthebochs 14y ago
        It's not about competition at the sperm level, gene quality as a whole. An individual is attempting to maximize its own genes. So a woman mating with a more masculine man will give her offspring the advantage of having "alpha" genes. But alpha men are not usually strong providers as they have their pick of women and so they spread their genes widely and divide their resources (or withhold them altogether). Thus maintaining the solid provider as the adoptive parent makes up for this. Of course, a man (evolutionarily speaking) has no interest in raising another man's kids. So the woman has to be sneaky with the affair. If the deceit remains hidden, this setup is by far the best the woman can do. As far as having kids who are themselves not good providers, an alpha man's strategy is usually one of spreading his genes far and wide. If you're desirable enough, that may be a winning strategy for you.
  - rm999 14y ago
    This was discussed in 'Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors'. I don't remember all the details, but I think it discussed the same research as this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/701286.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/701286.stm
  - barry-cotter 14y ago
    Non paternity events in the general population in Western nations occur in around 2% of cases. The higher the SES the lower the prevalence.
  - jamesknelson 14y ago
    The way you have worded it makes it sound like you have put all the blame on women for having affairs ("women have affairs to..."). It takes two to tango, so to speak. In fact, according to wikipedia, men are significantly more likely to have an affair than women (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity). The fact that men are often actively trying to get in women's pants likely has a greater effect on these statistics than women's genes' desire to reproduce.
  - sachingulaya 14y ago
    A genetic counselor quoted me ~10%. Any genetic counselors on HN?

I'm sure that happens a lot; father is sterile so they use artificial insemination and they never let the kid know; is just that OP is one of the few who later found out.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

hop 14y ago

Yep, that's what happened. Also, procedures were different back then, so we could have many more siblings, hope we didn't hook up in college.

mvleming 14y ago
The percentages I've heard are all over the place, but a decent number of children are actually not genetically related to their fathers. (I've heard anywhere between 3% and 30%.) One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that compete for her egg, thereby increasing the chances that her children will have good genes.
- mcherm 14y ago
  > One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that compete for her egg, thereby increasing the chances that her children will have good genes. That would be better expressed like this: > One theory that's been postulated is that women have affairs. The speculation about the reason for the affairs is just silly. Seriously. This made-up pseudo-evolutionary explanations for things that are so popular really do not add anything. Try it: ask 10 different women who have had affairs what their reason was -- they are real, live human beings, so you can ask instead of just speculating. I'm guessing that 0% of those women will say "to increase the genetic diversity of the sperm that competes for my egg".
  - iansimon 14y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causation#In_biology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximate_and_ultimate_causatio...
  - eric-hu 14y ago
    My smirk apparently agrees with you. That pseudo-evolutionary statement reminds me of the mouse-over for this xkcd http://xkcd.com/685/ http://xkcd.com/685/
  - mvleming 14y ago
    If I asked you "Why do you take your hand off a hot stove?" you might say because it hurts. But the fact that it hurts for us when we put our hand on the stove is our genes trying to keep themselves alive, because otherwise they risk being killed. In the same way, a person might say they had an affair for whatever reason, but really its their genes who want to be able to pass on themselves. (Edited for clarity.)
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - justincormack 14y ago
      Not really. That's a theory and it is one that is hard to disprove experimentally. It is a much stronger theory than evolution, saying that every action is correctly designed to optimise gene transmission. Essentially it is trying to say that we are at a global maximum in a space that is probably more nonlinear. In fact our genes may well be suboptimal in some respects even if you think they have "control". The contortions people go through to try to justify homosexuality as a genetic thing are one example of many. In fact diversity is an advantage in a varying environment so many traits must be suboptimal.
      - mvleming 14y ago
        I completely agree with you. I don't believe that every action is correctly designed to optimize gene transmissions and I think you put it into very eloquent words with: "it is trying to say that we are at a global maximum in a space that is probably more nonlinear." However, I think that there are certain actions that we take that are clearly defined by our genetics, like the fact that we eat, or that we have sex. And having affairs is one of those.
- return0 14y ago
  This kind of rationalizing doesn't sound really serious. Does that not imply that women deceit their partners and are thus genetically predisposed liars? Also, if she has chosen a partner it means he (and his sperm) are better genetically. If anything, she should be avoiding others' (inferior) sperm.
  - hackinthebochs 14y ago
    The theory is that the woman would want the more hearty sperm, but also want the father who is more faithful and more able to provide. It's a sound evolutionary strategy.
    - return0 14y ago
      How is it sound? Bearing the children of a male that is not a proven provider is more risky than bearing the children of a proven provider (the children will thus be more likely to be providers themselves). The sperm competition would be based solely on sperm motility which is a very poor indicator of evolutionary advantage.
      - cma 14y ago
        What would favor having a proven provider son? A faithful proven provider son will produce at most 6 or 7 grandchildren for his mom, an unfaithful cheat might produce an order of magnitude more.
      - hackinthebochs 14y ago
        It's not about competition at the sperm level, gene quality as a whole. An individual is attempting to maximize its own genes. So a woman mating with a more masculine man will give her offspring the advantage of having "alpha" genes. But alpha men are not usually strong providers as they have their pick of women and so they spread their genes widely and divide their resources (or withhold them altogether). Thus maintaining the solid provider as the adoptive parent makes up for this. Of course, a man (evolutionarily speaking) has no interest in raising another man's kids. So the woman has to be sneaky with the affair. If the deceit remains hidden, this setup is by far the best the woman can do. As far as having kids who are themselves not good providers, an alpha man's strategy is usually one of spreading his genes far and wide. If you're desirable enough, that may be a winning strategy for you.
- rm999 14y ago
  This was discussed in 'Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors'. I don't remember all the details, but I think it discussed the same research as this article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/701286.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/701286.stm
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  Non paternity events in the general population in Western nations occur in around 2% of cases. The higher the SES the lower the prevalence.
- jamesknelson 14y ago
  The way you have worded it makes it sound like you have put all the blame on women for having affairs ("women have affairs to..."). It takes two to tango, so to speak. In fact, according to wikipedia, men are significantly more likely to have an affair than women (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity). The fact that men are often actively trying to get in women's pants likely has a greater effect on these statistics than women's genes' desire to reproduce.
- sachingulaya 14y ago
  A genetic counselor quoted me ~10%. Any genetic counselors on HN?