5 ms·

Gender is determined genetically, and men and woman have different life expectancies. Does this mean you can't charge men and women different rates (all else b

Gender is determined genetically, and men and woman have different life expectancies. Does this mean you can't charge men and women different rates (all else being equal)?

mtgx 14y ago
That would be the same as charging women different for being more prone to car accidents.
- macey 14y ago
  Actually car insurance premiums do vary based on gender, at least under a certain age (teenage boys being the most expensive to insure).
- mseebach 14y ago
  It's very common that young male drivers (by virtue of being grossly overrepresented in accident statistics) have very high premiums.
- tspiteri 14y ago
  As far as I know, women in the UK used to pay less for car insurance because they are less accident prone. I don't know if this has changed because of sex discrimination laws. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12600284 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12600284
carbocation 14y ago
Since these companies don't determine your sex by asking you to submit a DNA sample and then surmising your sex via genetic information, but rather by asking you to indicate 'M' or 'F' on a form, genetic protections would be unlikely to be pertinent in the vast majority of cases. At least, that's my nonlawyer layperson read of things.
khomenko 14y ago
You can. Insurance spreads risk across population pools. You have to carve out those pools somehow, so you use broad variables like age and gender. The problem is genetic information has potential to make the pools too small.
- rscale 14y ago
  And from a payer perspective, it's problematic if a sizable population secretly learns that they are at meaningfully greater risk of health problems. Those individuals could then adversely select against the payers by buying Cadillac healthcare plans.
- mikeash 14y ago
  You don't have to carve out those pools at all. Insurance is workable if everyone is lumped into a single huge pool. The trouble is that a company which is able to break their clientele into smaller pools will outcompete those who aren't, so you get a bit of a race to the bottom.
  - khomenko 14y ago
    Indeed. Singe Payer + Universal Coverage = FTW.
apaprocki 14y ago
The US bill explicitly excludes gender: "`(C) EXCLUSIONS- The term `genetic information' shall not include information about the sex or age of any individual."
thwest 14y ago
Sex is determined genetically; Gender is determined socially and psychologically.
- g8oz 14y ago
  That is an ideological position, not a statement of fact.
  - thwest 14y ago
    The claim that ideology is separate from fact is an ideological position, so I don't think you are saying much. Do you care to make a claim about why you feel its acceptable to confuse sex and gender?
Joeri 14y ago
The european court of justice has already ruled that price discrimination based on gender for insurance premiums is sex discrimination and therefore in violation of fundamental human rights. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-123_en.htm?locale=en http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-123_en.htm?loca...
return0 14y ago
Sex can easily be detected from the phenotype in most cases.
natrius 14y ago
The Affordable Care Act prohibits charging based on gender. This provision kicks in on January 1, 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Effective_by_January_1.2C_2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...
- hickory 14y ago
  Tangentially related, I've been wondering if that could affect current gender discrepancies in the entrepreneurial scene (prospect of paying 200-300% more for private health insurance than male counterparts makes it even harder to leave your day job). More female startup founders in 2014, maybe?
OverlordXenu 14y ago
What? No. Gender isn't determined genetically. It's a psychological phenomenon. Also, sex can't even reliably be determined by chromosomes. There are things like Klinefelter syndrome, or XX male syndrome (exactly like it sounds).

Gender is determined genetically, and men and woman have different life expectancies. Does this mean you can't charge men and women different rates (all else being equal)?

mtgx 14y ago

That would be the same as charging women different for being more prone to car accidents.

macey 14y ago
Actually car insurance premiums do vary based on gender, at least under a certain age (teenage boys being the most expensive to insure).
mseebach 14y ago
It's very common that young male drivers (by virtue of being grossly overrepresented in accident statistics) have very high premiums.
tspiteri 14y ago
As far as I know, women in the UK used to pay less for car insurance because they are less accident prone. I don't know if this has changed because of sex discrimination laws. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12600284 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12600284

carbocation 14y ago

Since these companies don't determine your sex by asking you to submit a DNA sample and then surmising your sex via genetic information, but rather by asking you to indicate 'M' or 'F' on a form, genetic protections would be unlikely to be pertinent in the vast majority of cases. At least, that's my nonlawyer layperson read of things.

khomenko 14y ago

You can. Insurance spreads risk across population pools. You have to carve out those pools somehow, so you use broad variables like age and gender. The problem is genetic information has potential to make the pools too small.

rscale 14y ago
And from a payer perspective, it's problematic if a sizable population secretly learns that they are at meaningfully greater risk of health problems. Those individuals could then adversely select against the payers by buying Cadillac healthcare plans.
mikeash 14y ago
You don't have to carve out those pools at all. Insurance is workable if everyone is lumped into a single huge pool. The trouble is that a company which is able to break their clientele into smaller pools will outcompete those who aren't, so you get a bit of a race to the bottom.
- khomenko 14y ago
  Indeed. Singe Payer + Universal Coverage = FTW.

apaprocki 14y ago

The US bill explicitly excludes gender: "`(C) EXCLUSIONS- The term `genetic information' shall not include information about the sex or age of any individual."

thwest 14y ago

Sex is determined genetically; Gender is determined socially and psychologically.

g8oz 14y ago
That is an ideological position, not a statement of fact.
- thwest 14y ago
  The claim that ideology is separate from fact is an ideological position, so I don't think you are saying much. Do you care to make a claim about why you feel its acceptable to confuse sex and gender?

Joeri 14y ago

The european court of justice has already ruled that price discrimination based on gender for insurance premiums is sex discrimination and therefore in violation of fundamental human rights. http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-123_en.htm?locale=en http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-11-123_en.htm?loca...

return0 14y ago

Sex can easily be detected from the phenotype in most cases.

natrius 14y ago

The Affordable Care Act prohibits charging based on gender. This provision kicks in on January 1, 2014. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act#Effective_by_January_1.2C_2014 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...

hickory 14y ago
Tangentially related, I've been wondering if that could affect current gender discrepancies in the entrepreneurial scene (prospect of paying 200-300% more for private health insurance than male counterparts makes it even harder to leave your day job). More female startup founders in 2014, maybe?

OverlordXenu 14y ago

What? No. Gender isn't determined genetically. It's a psychological phenomenon. Also, sex can't even reliably be determined by chromosomes. There are things like Klinefelter syndrome, or XX male syndrome (exactly like it sounds).