4 ms·

Meanwhile in place of power, cable, and phone lines there is a related 18 mile translucent line hung in order to turn the entire city into one big happy home ca

Meanwhile in place of power, cable, and phone lines there is a related 18 mile translucent line hung in order to turn the entire city into one big happy home called a *eruv* -- following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter. [0] [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSldb9IMDVU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSldb9IMDVU

woodruffw 3mo ago
AFAIK the eruvim are not dictated by “high courts” (there is no “high court” at all), but are instead constructed and maintained by various Orthodox groups. Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized. (Also pedantic, but it’s not the entire city: there’s a Manhattan eruv that covers a large part of Manhattan, while Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx have separate smaller eruvim.)
- randallsquared 3mo ago
  There's a lot one could say about > following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter. but I don't think that "there is no 'high court' at all" is one, for believers.
  - woodruffw 3mo ago
    You can look it up if you don’t believe me. Orthodox Judaism doesn’t have a supreme religious authority; it’s a general classification for ~hundreds of distinct sects and movements. (Each movement has its own beis din, but there is not “high court” that unifies religious rulings across them. Which is why an eruv created by one group is often considered invalid by others.)
    - bombcar 3mo ago
      It's God, he's talking about God.
      - ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
        “We’re Kosher, and have to answer to an even higher authority!” https://youtu.be/lR1eeV5-M4U?is=anSmLPurh2pegvky https://youtu.be/lR1eeV5-M4U?is=anSmLPurh2pegvky
      - woodruffw 3mo ago
        That wasn't clear to me :-). But even still: the eruv is a rabbinical interpretation, not something attributed to God.
        bombcar 3mo ago
        The whole joke is that the Jews will even take God to court (where God is the Judge, Jury, and Defendant), and win - I believe there's a whatever it is they have about this: God basically ends up saying "Ha, I like the cut of your jib".
        woodruffw 3mo ago
        You’re probably referring to the Oven of Akhnai: https://voices.sefaria.org/sheets/144163?lang=bi https://voices.sefaria.org/sheets/144163?lang=bi (Talmudic interpretation doesn’t stress this story because it shows how much Jews love to argue, or because they can win arguments against God. It stresses the story because it demonstrates that the law has been received (“It is not in heaven”) and thus does not need to appeal to God. This, inter alia, is why nobody asks God for their opinion on eruvim.)
- skissane 3mo ago
  > Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized. There have been some big fights about the topic: https://traditiononline.org/unpacking-the-iggerot/ https://traditiononline.org/unpacking-the-iggerot/ Although from what I understand, Moshe Feinstein wasn’t opposed to eruvim in principle, he just viewed them as an inappropriate for a city like NYC
radicality 3mo ago
I live in nyc, when I first heard of the eruv couldn’t believe they would come up with such elaborate hacks just to ‘technically’ still be following their religious laws! Now if I remember I try and spot it when out. It also has a status page! https://eruv.nyc/ https://eruv.nyc/
- frantathefranta 3mo ago
  Somebody posted on HN before about an eruv index, that’s how I found my city had one as well[0]. I assume they got sort of popular around Jewish neighborhoods. [0]https://eruv-columbus.com/ https://eruv-columbus.com/
  - radicality 3mo ago
    Next up, they could build a low-earth-orbit eruv and call it a day
- lesuorac 3mo ago
  Idk it makes sense to me. Like a lot of the rules are very fuzzy in their origin. The whole kosher business comes from a passage about "Not boiling a kid in it's mothers milk". I think most people would interpret that much more literally and you couldn't kill a child goat (kid) and boil it in it's mothers milk; and probably also extend it to other animals like cows. But I'd still think that killing a kid and putting a slice on cheese on the meat would be fine. So if somebody is going to be obtuse with what you can do it seems like it'd be good fun to figure out all the ways around it.
  - to11mtm 3mo ago
    I think most of the kosher rules come from a sort of 'this is the most practical rule we can make at the time to keep people safe' sort of thing. Stuff like disease (i.e. most of the other rules about kosher animal prep including 'inspection',) allergies (shellfish ban), heck even pasteurization (going back to the 'boiling in milk', what are the odds that the milk hit the right temperature all throughout versus only some of it boiling, which in fact could encourage certain bad bacteria to grow, let alone whatever's in the likely uncooked meat being able to feed off the whole thing...)

woodruffw 3mo ago

AFAIK the eruvim are not dictated by “high courts” (there is no “high court” at all), but are instead constructed and maintained by various Orthodox groups. Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized. (Also pedantic, but it’s not the entire city: there’s a Manhattan eruv that covers a large part of Manhattan, while Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx have separate smaller eruvim.)

randallsquared 3mo ago
There's a lot one could say about > following the law of the highest of high courts to the letter. but I don't think that "there is no 'high court' at all" is one, for believers.
- woodruffw 3mo ago
  You can look it up if you don’t believe me. Orthodox Judaism doesn’t have a supreme religious authority; it’s a general classification for ~hundreds of distinct sects and movements. (Each movement has its own beis din, but there is not “high court” that unifies religious rulings across them. Which is why an eruv created by one group is often considered invalid by others.)
  - bombcar 3mo ago
    It's God, he's talking about God.
    - ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
      “We’re Kosher, and have to answer to an even higher authority!” https://youtu.be/lR1eeV5-M4U?is=anSmLPurh2pegvky https://youtu.be/lR1eeV5-M4U?is=anSmLPurh2pegvky
    - woodruffw 3mo ago
      That wasn't clear to me :-). But even still: the eruv is a rabbinical interpretation, not something attributed to God.
      - bombcar 3mo ago
        The whole joke is that the Jews will even take God to court (where God is the Judge, Jury, and Defendant), and win - I believe there's a whatever it is they have about this: God basically ends up saying "Ha, I like the cut of your jib".
        woodruffw 3mo ago
        You’re probably referring to the Oven of Akhnai: https://voices.sefaria.org/sheets/144163?lang=bi https://voices.sefaria.org/sheets/144163?lang=bi (Talmudic interpretation doesn’t stress this story because it shows how much Jews love to argue, or because they can win arguments against God. It stresses the story because it demonstrates that the law has been received (“It is not in heaven”) and thus does not need to appeal to God. This, inter alia, is why nobody asks God for their opinion on eruvim.)
skissane 3mo ago
> Not all Orthodox groups agree about their propriety either, so the presence of an eruv doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s recognized. There have been some big fights about the topic: https://traditiononline.org/unpacking-the-iggerot/ https://traditiononline.org/unpacking-the-iggerot/ Although from what I understand, Moshe Feinstein wasn’t opposed to eruvim in principle, he just viewed them as an inappropriate for a city like NYC

radicality 3mo ago

I live in nyc, when I first heard of the eruv couldn’t believe they would come up with such elaborate hacks just to ‘technically’ still be following their religious laws! Now if I remember I try and spot it when out. It also has a status page! https://eruv.nyc/ https://eruv.nyc/

frantathefranta 3mo ago
Somebody posted on HN before about an eruv index, that’s how I found my city had one as well[0]. I assume they got sort of popular around Jewish neighborhoods. [0]https://eruv-columbus.com/ https://eruv-columbus.com/
- radicality 3mo ago
  Next up, they could build a low-earth-orbit eruv and call it a day
lesuorac 3mo ago
Idk it makes sense to me. Like a lot of the rules are very fuzzy in their origin. The whole kosher business comes from a passage about "Not boiling a kid in it's mothers milk". I think most people would interpret that much more literally and you couldn't kill a child goat (kid) and boil it in it's mothers milk; and probably also extend it to other animals like cows. But I'd still think that killing a kid and putting a slice on cheese on the meat would be fine. So if somebody is going to be obtuse with what you can do it seems like it'd be good fun to figure out all the ways around it.
- to11mtm 3mo ago
  I think most of the kosher rules come from a sort of 'this is the most practical rule we can make at the time to keep people safe' sort of thing. Stuff like disease (i.e. most of the other rules about kosher animal prep including 'inspection',) allergies (shellfish ban), heck even pasteurization (going back to the 'boiling in milk', what are the odds that the milk hit the right temperature all throughout versus only some of it boiling, which in fact could encourage certain bad bacteria to grow, let alone whatever's in the likely uncooked meat being able to feed off the whole thing...)