20 ms·

WordPress 3.5 “Elvin” Released

84 points by nosecreek 14y ago

earwolf 14y ago
horrendous muffled voiceover on that video
- Otto42 14y ago
  He's not muffled. He actually sounds like that. :)
dave1010uk 14y ago
Does anyone know if / when WordPress may start using a modern PHP framework (eg zf2 / symfony2)?
- tnorthcutt 14y ago
  I seriously doubt that will happen in the relatively near future, for values of near including anything less than 5 years.
- Cthulhu_ 14y ago
  Wordpress is its own PHP framework; in fact, PHP itself is a framework, provides everything frameworks do from database querying to templating.
  - kalms 14y ago
    Calling Wordpress a framework is like calling Symfony a programming language.
    - smacktoward 14y ago
      Much like Drupal, WordPress can be bent into something vaguely resembling a framework, if you're the type of person who enjoys that sort of thing. But being the type of person who likes using WordPress as a general-purpose framework is sort of like being the type of person who enjoys being tied up and beaten with a rubber hose. It's a weird, weird kink.
      - kalms 14y ago
        Of the 2 I very much prefer Drupal. It's a bad CMS, but a great CMF. Wordpress is in my opinion the exact opposite. That said, I haven't checked out the last 2 versions or so.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  It wouldn't really be WordPress anymore at that point. You're likely talking about a rewrite of virtually every bit of code.
  - jacques_chester 14y ago
    I propose that we sail there in the Ship of Theseus.
- JeremyMorgan 14y ago
  Highly doubtful, their structure is pretty set in place and they have a large ecosystem of plugin and template developers that tie into this structure. Changing that would be a bad move on their part.
- bergie 14y ago
  Drupal and eZpublish did adopt Symfony, and TYPO3 built their own modern framework (Flow3). Out of these, Drupal and TYPO3 Neos also went with my Create.js library for inline editing. So yeah, there is some precedent at popular CMSs using a modern framework on server, client, or both. We'll see when and if WordPress follows the example...
- rmccue 14y ago
  Despite what other people are saying, it is quite possible that we'll be taking parts of Symfony: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/22325 http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/22325 At the moment, we're not considering dropping support for PHP 5.2, so we'll likely take the best ideas and implementation from various frameworks and combine them. I'm fairly committed to reiterating wherever possible that WP isn't a silo and we need to be looking at what other PHP projects are doing. We're getting better at that.
NathanKP 14y ago
There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig (http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ http://twig.sensiolabs.org/). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are some custom solutions for creating real templates in Twig, but this should be part of the mainstream WordPress branch.
- diminish 14y ago
  weird how I feel in reverse. pseudo languages in templates and restrictive new template syatems annoy me in reverse. I prefer general languages for templating.
  - NathanKP 14y ago
    The very restrictive nature of a template pseudo language is one of its beneficial attributes. If, for example, you use PHP to create your templates then the very power and flexibility of PHP allows you to make a "quick fix" for a model issue in the template, or a function call from the template, and next thing you know your template is no longer just a view, but instead a messy hodgepodge of code along the lines of what you often see when you open up the typical WordPress template. The template pseudo languages enforce a strict separation between model and view, and they typically do so with a much more concise syntax and legible format compared with embedding PHP in HTML, for example. I used to prefer general languages for templating, but once I learned the pattern of using Twig to the full I found that I could create templates much faster than before, and I could also go back to a template after a couple months of not looking at it and quickly understand what I was looking at.
    - diminish 14y ago
      Somehow I expected, the valid argument against business logic mixing inside templates, making the case for a template language. I agree, but that way we are progressing towards dozens of languages in implementing a simple user function. For example, why not a language for controllers, and another one for models too? In contrary, I am in the pursuit for the one universal language to be used everyhere replacing, javascript, html, css, templating language, ruby/python/php, sql..
chrisblackwell 14y ago
WordPress could really change their bad reputation by dropping support for PHP 5.2 in the next release, and requiring 5.3. This would allow future WordPress developers to namespace their code, and out allow simple closures withint your code. As of PHP 5.5, there is no support for a straight mySQL connection. There is no real downside in WordPress adopting the PDO standard.
- zaphoyd 14y ago
  Do you have a source for PHP 5.5 dropping straight MySQL support? I'd like to read more.
  - chrisblackwell 14y ago
    http://news.php.net/php.internals/53799 http://news.php.net/php.internals/53799
    - papsosouid 14y ago
      That doesn't support the claim of no support for straight mysql connection in 5.5. It says they are going to focus on documenting how to use mysql with the newer modules instead of the old one, and that they will look into possibly adding deprecation notices for the old module in 5.5. Which means it will obviously still be there, and still work.
      - jtreminio 14y ago
        mysql_* functions will still work, they will simply be marked as deprecated from 5.5 forward: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation As of 5.4, mysql_* were officially discouraged via the docs. Maybe in > 5.5.* mysql_* functions will be officially removed from core?
- Otto42 14y ago
  Somehow I doubt that we'll decide to drop support for 65.5% of our users (roughly 26 million websites). http://wordpress.org/about/stats/ http://wordpress.org/about/stats/
bdcravens 14y ago
I wish they'd put some serious resources into dealing with comment spam. I realize it'll always be an issue, but they could at least: 1) not make comments enabled out of box with no anti-spam measures (moderating isn't anti-spam in my opinion: technical solutions should come before man-power) 2) not make me rely on third-party plugins to combat it
- whalesalad 14y ago
  I think the issue is that good spam detection systems, at this point, require a server to do all of the processing. This is why they created Akismet and provide integration by way of a plugin.
- jblz 14y ago
  Akismet, while a plugin, is included in the default WordPress install -- it just has to be activated. I'm not sure how a standalone install of WordPress would competently fight spam in the automated manner you're advocating. Since spam techniques are constantly evolving, it's a pretty challenging machine-learning problem to stay a step ahead. That's where services such as Akismet come in. http://akismet.com/how/ http://akismet.com/how/
- DigitalSea 14y ago
  Akismet does a great job dealing with comment spam. Activate it and input your API key and you're done. Even other applications like PHPbb and "insert PHP content management system here" have problems with spam, it's not as easy as you think to detect and deal with spam.
  - denharsh 14y ago
    Try GASP ..that's great too..
  - bdcravens 14y ago
    I've used other pieces of software, even some paid-for PHP features, so I agree as to the spam problem. I was thinking more along the lines of disabling comments by default, and making it a bit of a chore to enable, to make point-and-click installs less of an attack vector.
DigitalSea 14y ago
The media changes are a welcome addition, but I can't help but feel Wordpress is still lacking in the media department quite a lot. One feature I've been hoping for in terms of media management is folders to organise media instead of paginating pages of all images being displayed which usually involves duplicates being displayed. I love Wordpress, but it would be great to be able to upload specific images for example of dogs into a folder called, "Dogs" and then being able to browse and manage media in said folder. It's great to see Wordpress is taking steps in the right direction with every release. Another wishlist feature would be the integration of the Advanced Custom Fields plugin straight into the core which allows you to add custom meta boxes and fields to posts in a tasteful and aesthetically pleasing way. I'm excited about the future of Wordpress, it's my bread and butter and I don't see it being beat any time soon.
- Otto42 14y ago
  Re: media, one step at a time. :) Re: custom fields: This makes little to no sense to be in core, because custom fields are just that, "custom". There's no point in giving the end user the ability to make their own meta boxes hooked to custom post meta if there is no plugin or theme actually using that meta data. Creating a meta box is something that the theme/plugin should do, because it's actually going to use the data gained from that meta box. In other words, the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way 'round.
kyriakos 14y ago
Twentytwelves mobile first approach for me is source of pain. They essentially dropped support for IE8 and below which means people in corporate environments like the company I work for who are stuck to windows xp due to other legacy software that requires it cannot view the desktop view of themes based on WordPress new default theme.
BUGHUNTER 14y ago
Unfortunately there is still no reliable unattended upgrade process inluding rollback (aka migration) for wordpress. I looked into this a little bit, but there does not seem to be a reliable way to check if plugins have been executed successfully and with expected results or not, so you never know after an upgrade if your site is broken. There are still many other issues with the code, but having a clearly defined error-handling / -signaling for plugins would be the one single change that would help in many problem areas of wordpress development - making rules and knowledge about successful plugin execution and error handling obligatory for plugin devs could be the one single change that could also help to reduce that annoying flood of unbelievable bad code to be found in WP plugins repo.
vikramkumar1000 14y ago
WordPress 3.5 is the second major release for 2012 and is focused on improvements of existing features. I was waiting for some improvement in wordpress and here it is. Glad to see some really good features. thanks for sharing.

84 points by nosecreek 14y ago

earwolf 14y ago

horrendous muffled voiceover on that video

Otto42 14y ago
He's not muffled. He actually sounds like that. :)

dave1010uk 14y ago

Does anyone know if / when WordPress may start using a modern PHP framework (eg zf2 / symfony2)?

tnorthcutt 14y ago
I seriously doubt that will happen in the relatively near future, for values of near including anything less than 5 years.
Cthulhu_ 14y ago
Wordpress is its own PHP framework; in fact, PHP itself is a framework, provides everything frameworks do from database querying to templating.
- kalms 14y ago
  Calling Wordpress a framework is like calling Symfony a programming language.
  - smacktoward 14y ago
    Much like Drupal, WordPress can be bent into something vaguely resembling a framework, if you're the type of person who enjoys that sort of thing. But being the type of person who likes using WordPress as a general-purpose framework is sort of like being the type of person who enjoys being tied up and beaten with a rubber hose. It's a weird, weird kink.
    - kalms 14y ago
      Of the 2 I very much prefer Drupal. It's a bad CMS, but a great CMF. Wordpress is in my opinion the exact opposite. That said, I haven't checked out the last 2 versions or so.
ceejayoz 14y ago
It wouldn't really be WordPress anymore at that point. You're likely talking about a rewrite of virtually every bit of code.
- jacques_chester 14y ago
  I propose that we sail there in the Ship of Theseus.
JeremyMorgan 14y ago
Highly doubtful, their structure is pretty set in place and they have a large ecosystem of plugin and template developers that tie into this structure. Changing that would be a bad move on their part.
bergie 14y ago
Drupal and eZpublish did adopt Symfony, and TYPO3 built their own modern framework (Flow3). Out of these, Drupal and TYPO3 Neos also went with my Create.js library for inline editing. So yeah, there is some precedent at popular CMSs using a modern framework on server, client, or both. We'll see when and if WordPress follows the example...
rmccue 14y ago
Despite what other people are saying, it is quite possible that we'll be taking parts of Symfony: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/22325 http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/22325 At the moment, we're not considering dropping support for PHP 5.2, so we'll likely take the best ideas and implementation from various frameworks and combine them. I'm fairly committed to reiterating wherever possible that WP isn't a silo and we need to be looking at what other PHP projects are doing. We're getting better at that.

NathanKP 14y ago

There is a more technical list, including the details on the improvements for developers here: http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 http://codex.wordpress.org/Version_3.5 The biggest thing I wish WordPress would add is a better built in system for real templates, using a something along the lines of Twig (http://twig.sensiolabs.org/ http://twig.sensiolabs.org/). That mixed PHP code and HTML in your standard WordPress template disgusts me every time I see it. I know there are some custom solutions for creating real templates in Twig, but this should be part of the mainstream WordPress branch.

diminish 14y ago
weird how I feel in reverse. pseudo languages in templates and restrictive new template syatems annoy me in reverse. I prefer general languages for templating.
- NathanKP 14y ago
  The very restrictive nature of a template pseudo language is one of its beneficial attributes. If, for example, you use PHP to create your templates then the very power and flexibility of PHP allows you to make a "quick fix" for a model issue in the template, or a function call from the template, and next thing you know your template is no longer just a view, but instead a messy hodgepodge of code along the lines of what you often see when you open up the typical WordPress template. The template pseudo languages enforce a strict separation between model and view, and they typically do so with a much more concise syntax and legible format compared with embedding PHP in HTML, for example. I used to prefer general languages for templating, but once I learned the pattern of using Twig to the full I found that I could create templates much faster than before, and I could also go back to a template after a couple months of not looking at it and quickly understand what I was looking at.
  - diminish 14y ago
    Somehow I expected, the valid argument against business logic mixing inside templates, making the case for a template language. I agree, but that way we are progressing towards dozens of languages in implementing a simple user function. For example, why not a language for controllers, and another one for models too? In contrary, I am in the pursuit for the one universal language to be used everyhere replacing, javascript, html, css, templating language, ruby/python/php, sql..

chrisblackwell 14y ago

WordPress could really change their bad reputation by dropping support for PHP 5.2 in the next release, and requiring 5.3. This would allow future WordPress developers to namespace their code, and out allow simple closures withint your code. As of PHP 5.5, there is no support for a straight mySQL connection. There is no real downside in WordPress adopting the PDO standard.

zaphoyd 14y ago
Do you have a source for PHP 5.5 dropping straight MySQL support? I'd like to read more.
- chrisblackwell 14y ago
  http://news.php.net/php.internals/53799 http://news.php.net/php.internals/53799
  - papsosouid 14y ago
    That doesn't support the claim of no support for straight mysql connection in 5.5. It says they are going to focus on documenting how to use mysql with the newer modules instead of the old one, and that they will look into possibly adding deprecation notices for the old module in 5.5. Which means it will obviously still be there, and still work.
    - jtreminio 14y ago
      mysql_* functions will still work, they will simply be marked as deprecated from 5.5 forward: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation https://wiki.php.net/rfc/mysql_deprecation As of 5.4, mysql_* were officially discouraged via the docs. Maybe in > 5.5.* mysql_* functions will be officially removed from core?
Otto42 14y ago
Somehow I doubt that we'll decide to drop support for 65.5% of our users (roughly 26 million websites). http://wordpress.org/about/stats/ http://wordpress.org/about/stats/

bdcravens 14y ago

I wish they'd put some serious resources into dealing with comment spam. I realize it'll always be an issue, but they could at least: 1) not make comments enabled out of box with no anti-spam measures (moderating isn't anti-spam in my opinion: technical solutions should come before man-power) 2) not make me rely on third-party plugins to combat it

whalesalad 14y ago
I think the issue is that good spam detection systems, at this point, require a server to do all of the processing. This is why they created Akismet and provide integration by way of a plugin.
jblz 14y ago
Akismet, while a plugin, is included in the default WordPress install -- it just has to be activated. I'm not sure how a standalone install of WordPress would competently fight spam in the automated manner you're advocating. Since spam techniques are constantly evolving, it's a pretty challenging machine-learning problem to stay a step ahead. That's where services such as Akismet come in. http://akismet.com/how/ http://akismet.com/how/
DigitalSea 14y ago
Akismet does a great job dealing with comment spam. Activate it and input your API key and you're done. Even other applications like PHPbb and "insert PHP content management system here" have problems with spam, it's not as easy as you think to detect and deal with spam.
- denharsh 14y ago
  Try GASP ..that's great too..
- bdcravens 14y ago
  I've used other pieces of software, even some paid-for PHP features, so I agree as to the spam problem. I was thinking more along the lines of disabling comments by default, and making it a bit of a chore to enable, to make point-and-click installs less of an attack vector.

DigitalSea 14y ago

The media changes are a welcome addition, but I can't help but feel Wordpress is still lacking in the media department quite a lot. One feature I've been hoping for in terms of media management is folders to organise media instead of paginating pages of all images being displayed which usually involves duplicates being displayed. I love Wordpress, but it would be great to be able to upload specific images for example of dogs into a folder called, "Dogs" and then being able to browse and manage media in said folder. It's great to see Wordpress is taking steps in the right direction with every release. Another wishlist feature would be the integration of the Advanced Custom Fields plugin straight into the core which allows you to add custom meta boxes and fields to posts in a tasteful and aesthetically pleasing way. I'm excited about the future of Wordpress, it's my bread and butter and I don't see it being beat any time soon.

Otto42 14y ago
Re: media, one step at a time. :) Re: custom fields: This makes little to no sense to be in core, because custom fields are just that, "custom". There's no point in giving the end user the ability to make their own meta boxes hooked to custom post meta if there is no plugin or theme actually using that meta data. Creating a meta box is something that the theme/plugin should do, because it's actually going to use the data gained from that meta box. In other words, the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way 'round.

kyriakos 14y ago

Twentytwelves mobile first approach for me is source of pain. They essentially dropped support for IE8 and below which means people in corporate environments like the company I work for who are stuck to windows xp due to other legacy software that requires it cannot view the desktop view of themes based on WordPress new default theme.

BUGHUNTER 14y ago

Unfortunately there is still no reliable unattended upgrade process inluding rollback (aka migration) for wordpress. I looked into this a little bit, but there does not seem to be a reliable way to check if plugins have been executed successfully and with expected results or not, so you never know after an upgrade if your site is broken. There are still many other issues with the code, but having a clearly defined error-handling / -signaling for plugins would be the one single change that would help in many problem areas of wordpress development - making rules and knowledge about successful plugin execution and error handling obligatory for plugin devs could be the one single change that could also help to reduce that annoying flood of unbelievable bad code to be found in WP plugins repo.

vikramkumar1000 14y ago

WordPress 3.5 is the second major release for 2012 and is focused on improvements of existing features. I was waiting for some improvement in wordpress and here it is. Glad to see some really good features. thanks for sharing.