3 ms·

FWIW raw milk is actually OK. Drank it “directly” from the cows, never got sick from it. *directly = cow milked into a cup.

manarth 2mo ago
the plural of anecdote is not data.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Yes, it is, actually. Especially in social sciences.
lostlogin 2mo ago
There were a few times when I didn’t look as I crossed the road. It was fine.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2mo ago
"The objective of this review is to provide an integrated historical account of the complex, often convoluted events impacting milk hygiene and its resultant effect on infant mortality from 1875 to 1925. Heat pasteurization of cow's milk is necessary for rendering this important nutrient source safe for humans-particularly infants. Developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864, pasteurization evolved from the commercially important parboiling of wine and beer when the Industrial Revolution was effecting rapid societal change in Western societies. In European and American societies of the early and mid-19th century, infant mortality rates were 30- to 60-fold higher than the current rates of five or six deaths per 1,000 live births per year." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30234385/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30234385/ Not every pre-pasteurization child died, but far more died than post-pasteurization. Raw milk is just a bad idea at anything beyond incredibly tiny tightly controlled scale. Sure, you got lucky. It's still not a good way to feed a society.
lompad 2mo ago
Raw milk _can_ be kind of okay under very specific circumstances. (But knowing the state american farms tend to be in regarding hygiene and controls, it's a ridiculous gamble.) 1) extremely closely controlled cow health 2) minimal storage time 3) minimized chances of cross contamination/reasonably clean cows <- that's the big one 4) healthy immune system to minimize infection chances If even one of those isn't there, it's basically sickness in a cup. Why take a risk if there's no benefit? In germany, there's the concept of "Vorzugsmilch", which is raw milk from specifically controlled farms with super tight regulations with regular and intense controls and testing of milk, e.g. monthly testing of every individual cow's milk. But even then, it's an - albeit small - risk without benefit, with the exception of raw-milk cheese, which can't be made in any other way. I just don't get it, practically none of the claims of the raw-milk-gurus could be proven under controlled circumstances. Why needlessly take risks?
- mrwh 2mo ago
  I tend to think the risk is the point. It's an in-group marker, getting very sick every so often for no good reason shows commitment. Which of course makes it doubly pointless as a suggestion to the general public, but the fact that it's a bad idea doesn't mean that for the in-group it's a bad idea. (I mean, it _is_ a bad idea, you understand though.)
- ExoticPearTree 2mo ago
  In all truthness, it was in a village and I was under 6 or 7. It was the way things worked. And no one monitored the cows specifically: they would graze all day and then returned in the evening and be milked by hand.
duzer65657 2mo ago
This is exactly how the RFK shit gets support: one person says "hey, I did it and I'm fine!" somehow get extrapolated to "it's good for _Everyone_"
ndsipa_pomu 2mo ago
I played Russian Roulette a couple of times and I'm fine
UncleMeat 2mo ago
Cows are covered in their own shit, including their udders. "I drank raw milk and didn't get sick" is not actually the same as "drinking raw milk is safe."

manarth 2mo ago

the plural of anecdote is not data.

inigyou 2mo ago
Yes, it is, actually. Especially in social sciences.

lostlogin 2mo ago

There were a few times when I didn’t look as I crossed the road. It was fine.

sjsdaiuasgdia 2mo ago

"The objective of this review is to provide an integrated historical account of the complex, often convoluted events impacting milk hygiene and its resultant effect on infant mortality from 1875 to 1925. Heat pasteurization of cow's milk is necessary for rendering this important nutrient source safe for humans-particularly infants. Developed by Louis Pasteur in 1864, pasteurization evolved from the commercially important parboiling of wine and beer when the Industrial Revolution was effecting rapid societal change in Western societies. In European and American societies of the early and mid-19th century, infant mortality rates were 30- to 60-fold higher than the current rates of five or six deaths per 1,000 live births per year." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30234385/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30234385/ Not every pre-pasteurization child died, but far more died than post-pasteurization. Raw milk is just a bad idea at anything beyond incredibly tiny tightly controlled scale. Sure, you got lucky. It's still not a good way to feed a society.

lompad 2mo ago

Raw milk _can_ be kind of okay under very specific circumstances. (But knowing the state american farms tend to be in regarding hygiene and controls, it's a ridiculous gamble.) 1) extremely closely controlled cow health 2) minimal storage time 3) minimized chances of cross contamination/reasonably clean cows <- that's the big one 4) healthy immune system to minimize infection chances If even one of those isn't there, it's basically sickness in a cup. Why take a risk if there's no benefit? In germany, there's the concept of "Vorzugsmilch", which is raw milk from specifically controlled farms with super tight regulations with regular and intense controls and testing of milk, e.g. monthly testing of every individual cow's milk. But even then, it's an - albeit small - risk without benefit, with the exception of raw-milk cheese, which can't be made in any other way. I just don't get it, practically none of the claims of the raw-milk-gurus could be proven under controlled circumstances. Why needlessly take risks?

mrwh 2mo ago
I tend to think the risk is the point. It's an in-group marker, getting very sick every so often for no good reason shows commitment. Which of course makes it doubly pointless as a suggestion to the general public, but the fact that it's a bad idea doesn't mean that for the in-group it's a bad idea. (I mean, it _is_ a bad idea, you understand though.)
ExoticPearTree 2mo ago
In all truthness, it was in a village and I was under 6 or 7. It was the way things worked. And no one monitored the cows specifically: they would graze all day and then returned in the evening and be milked by hand.

duzer65657 2mo ago

This is exactly how the RFK shit gets support: one person says "hey, I did it and I'm fine!" somehow get extrapolated to "it's good for _Everyone_"

ndsipa_pomu 2mo ago

I played Russian Roulette a couple of times and I'm fine

UncleMeat 2mo ago

Cows are covered in their own shit, including their udders. "I drank raw milk and didn't get sick" is not actually the same as "drinking raw milk is safe."